Jonathan Wynne-Jones reported for the Telegraph that Anglican Church lacks leadership, say bishops.
In a speech to conservative evangelicals, who debated proposals for a new “church within a church”, the Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali said that there has been a lack of discipline.
Traditionalists have been upset that the Episcopal Church escaped punishment despite consecrating Gene Robinson as Anglicanism’s first openly gay bishop.
The Bishop of Rochester told clergy that the new movement was equivalent to the Reformation in the sixteenth century, which led to the establishment of the Church of England…
And Agence France-Presse has a report Church of England Evangelicals dodge homosexuality vote.
Church of England Evangelicals meeting on Saturday refused to vote to establish their position on homosexuality — an issue that has caused deep splits within the worldwide Anglican communion.
The Church of England Evangelical Council met in central London but the 300 attendees declined an opportunity to vote.
“The opinions expressed were a wide range of opinions,” said The Reverend Doctor Richard Turnbull, chairman of the Church of England Evangelical Council.
“People decided that they didn’t actually want to vote on a resolution. The disadvantage of that is you then don’t exactly know what people think.”
The council meets again on December 4…
There is further information about the meeting at Fulcrum see here, and also here.
And now there is also a report there, by Wim Houtman, NEAC 2008: a Evangelical Dutch Report.
We have just published on Fulcrum ‘NEAC 2008: an Evangelical Dutch Report’ by Wim Houtman, Religion Editor, Nederlands Dagblad.
http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/page.cfm?ID=360
“The opinions expressed were a wide range of opinions,” said The Reverend Doctor Richard Turnbull, chairman of the Church of England Evangelical Council.
“People decided that they didn’t actually want to vote on a resolution.”
So Evangelical Anglicanism is a microcosm of the rest of the Church, then? Interesting that lack of a clear position within Evangelicalism is acceptable, while the same situation in the wider Anglican Church is not.
Presumably Bishop Nazir Ali would have provided the right sort of strong un-wishy washy leadership had he become Archbishop as he seems so ardently to have desired? But would the other bishops have followed his lead I wonder? I suspect things would be even more polarised.
We have a popular taunting chant in England, thrown by supporters of a team ahead in the game at the followers of their opponents. “Sing when you’re winning, you only sing when you’re winning” it goes (repeated ad infinitum). It’s not very pleasant but it contains the grain of truth that you learn something central about someone by how they respond to adversity. By that standard I reckon the petulant and ill-tempered remarks from the CEEC leadership as set out in the Dutch report tell us something pretty important. They show an authoritarianism that is more about human power than… Read more »
The original motion as proposed by the Chair of CEEC, which was ‘not put’ because the procedural motion that ‘it be not put’ was passed by 123 votes to 104, may be read – together with the note on Procedure that ‘No amendments will be permitted’ – on the Fulcrum Forum thread NEAC 2008:
http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/forum/thread.cfm?thread=7332
From the Dutch account, it looks like the attempt to pull a Lambeth 1998 style resolution coup, with the forcing of a rightwing resolution that does not reflect nor respect existing Anglican diversities of conscience, failed rather badly. Turnball the Testy has not changed a whit, it would seem, in his MY Way Or The Highway leadership. Shall we all quickly conclude that Turnball knows God better than the people who did not like his surprise resolution? Just when I think I have given up on evangelicals, they go fierce and stand up to coup attempts like this one. Nice… Read more »
“Church of England Evangelicals meeting on Saturday refused to vote to establish their position on homosexuality — an issue that has caused deep splits within the worldwide Anglican communion. “The Church of England Evangelical Council met in central London but the 300 attendees declined an opportunity to vote. “The opinions expressed were a wide range of opinions,” said The Reverend Doctor Richard Turnbull, chairman of the Church of England Evangelical Council.” – Agence France-Presse – This comment from Agence Presse surely underlines the fact that most English Evangelicals do not go along with the radicals – like Nazir-Ali – who… Read more »
So conservative evangelicals are upset that the Episcopal Church has “escaped punishment”. That says it all about some of them!
Has it ever occurred to Nazir-Ali that if the CoE had the sort of tight discipline he is calling for, he would have been deposed long ago?
“Church of England Evangelicals meeting on Saturday refused to vote to establish their position on homosexuality — an issue that has caused deep splits within the worldwide Anglican communion.”
“The Church of England Evangelical Council met in central London but the 300 attendees declined an opportunity to vote.”
Dodge, dodge, wink, wink ;=)
“They show an authoritarianism that is more about human power than the authority of scripture, a willingness to subordinate all other considerations to getting one’s own way, and above all a gracelesness in the common sense that points to the absence of Grace in its formal sense.”
They are merely the latest in a long long string of things that have revealed clearly to the world what it is that is driving these people.
Duncan commented “So conservative evangelicals are upset that the Episcopal Church has “escaped punishment”. That says it all about some of them!” That has been one of the most amusing and bemusing things in all this fracas. A couple of years before Lambeth 2008, the conservatives were clear that GLBTs were simply unacceptable, as was any church that would attempt to offer justice or mercy to such souls. They tried to claim there were no legitimate biblical grounds, and that it was “evil” to do the right thing. We had the debate, we proved there was biblical precedents that could… Read more »
“It’s just plain bizarre.” Not bizarre at all. They are right, you see, utterly right, God says clearly they are right. Even if what God says isn’t all that clear, they still proclaim that it is in fact clear as is the summer sun. God says so. So, they are not merely right, their rightness has Divine approval. They therefor have not only a right, but a duty, to force everyone else to agree with their rightness and do what they, or rather God, says. I mean if it’s God’s will, then surely we, God’s hands in the world as… Read more »
Conservative Evangelicals and they have no consensus as to what the Bible teaches about divorce and re-marriage, female ordination and male headship….yet their central plank is the sole supreme authority and perspicuity of Holy Scripture! Furthermore they are prepared to join with ” conservative “Anglo-catholics who teach doctrines they believe are unbiblical!
New Biblical province to old corrupt Province perverting the clear word of God…
” we actually have no consensus as to what the Bible teaches on ordination, male headship and divorce and re-marriage….actually its not as clear as we make out!”
Well, I for one am looking forward eagerly to the Second Catholic Revival, which must surely follow hard upon the self-destruction of the Evangelical movement that has so dominated the Anglican Communion for the last 40 years.
Dear Ford,
I love it when you are clear about your intention in your posts here, but I must confess, I do get a teeny bit nervous when your posts start with a seeming postulation of the Devil’s Advocate. Fun for you, I know, but I still get a bit nervous.
Thinks! Does that make me sound a bit paranoid? Or am I still a bit cautious about postings that even seem to embrace the unctuous devil-dodgers’ point of view? Still love you, Ford!
Ron+, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean we aren’t all out to get you.
Love you too, Malcolm+ – and most of you on this site. Isn’t it lovely to speak that word ‘LOVE’?
“I do get a teeny bit nervous when your posts start with a seeming postulation of the Devil’s Advocate.”
See, in my head, the sarcasm is really clear. I keep forgetting that tone of voice doesn’t make it to print!
LOL Ford, and thank you.
Perhaps warning labels:
>
For some reason, my proposed warning label did not come through:
WARNING: SARCASM FOLLOWS
No warning labels:
Just when is someone sensible going to relieve us of Michael Nazir-Ali?
Just when is someone sensible going to relieve us of Michael Nazir-Ali?”
Careful! Not comparing +Nazir-Ali to a certain previous prelate or anything, but these can be dangerous words in the English Church;-)