The communiqué says TEC and ACoC does “discredit to our witness” and in a way they do, not accepting that the self styled Global South speaks Christ’s Gospel or have a reasonable view of the Bible, or even cite truthful translations of the same…
Father Ron Smith
14 years ago
“If the Archbishop of Canterbury were to be consistent with his thinking, he would be saying that schism is the worse sin because it breaks up the body and tears branches from the vine. An Elizabethan Catholic approach would require that these bishops (GS) remain in Communion with us – precisely because we differ: because our only unity is found in Christ.” – Andrew Gerns, Leading Article, Episcopal Cafe – Andrew Gerns’ thoughts here might be consonant with those of many of us – who never wanted to be separate from anyone else in the Communion, but the circumstances have… Read more »
Adam Armstrong
14 years ago
A simple question. Why, in all their fulminations against the “West” does the C of E (or for that matter the other Anglican Churches in the U.K.)get a free pass? Same-sex unions among clergy in England are known to exist and same-sex blessings take place. There are gay bishops. So why does North America get all the abuse? I assume it’s because they can’t get property and interfere so easily in the U.K. for legal reasons. Or is it because they can’t openly call for the replacement of the C of E, which would be a full attack on +Rowan,… Read more »
Adam Armstrong
14 years ago
Just to clarify-I’m not suggesting that being gay or having gay clergy has anything at all to do with sexual abuse, paedophilia, etc. These are entirely different issues, especially when the issue of official clerical celibacy is considered. I am saying that a culture of deception, especially for public consumption, is unhealthy.
EmilyH
14 years ago
Reading each of these articles as a whole is interesting. The pattern of the article in the The Church Times seems to reflect a concern with the issue of a GS restructuring of the communion so as to place control in the hands of the GS and theology and discipline in the hands of the primates. For the U.S., the lack of democracy in this new structure is at best unappealing, but for the CofE, I wonder, is there an echo here of praemunire? By contrast, the emphasis in some of the comments coming from the US, is the concern… Read more »
JPM
14 years ago
Adam, there are no fundamentalist millionaires paying big bucks to break up the CoE.
“Why ….. does the C of E …… get a free pass?” In large part because the American Right is not bankrolling many of those in the forefront of the attack on the Canadian and US Churches to attack the Church of England, Adam Armstrong.
Priscilla Cardinale
14 years ago
One is brought to remember 1 Corinthians 13:1 “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.” KJV Standing apart, holding forth a raised palm and proclaiming empty threats based in pique is no sign of charitable love for one’s brothers and sisters in Christ. The hypocrisy would be laughable if not so serious. “We may violate communion-wide agreements and take property not belonging to us because we are right!” says the Global South, “Yet you must crawl to us in the dust repenting… Read more »
Chris Smith
14 years ago
Christian Fundamentalism in the Global South conference and Fascism are joined together. These are dangerous human beings. I hope Rowan Williams will ultimately do the right thing and see the danger in their core philosophy. I don’t imagine it will take too much longer before we know the answer.
So “no fags” is right up there with belief in the Resurrection, the Incarnation, Salvation by Faith, and the Trinity.
Where do you suppose our omniscient and divinely inspired primates will insert that into the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds?
They’ll have to insert it somewhere into the Gospels too.
peterpi
14 years ago
counterlight,
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the elimination of sexual perverts, the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
Coming to an Orthodox Anglican church near you?
badman
14 years ago
The trumpet looks more like a damp squib. We know a lot of Global South primates are vehemently opposed to any association with liberal Anglicans, especially in North America. We know they have broken communion with liberals, refused to attend the Lambeth Conference, boycotted the Standing Committee. No change there. The Global South Encounter was, in fact, a conservative encounter, an invitation only event from which dissenting voices were excluded (you had to sign up to the Ridley-Cambridge draft of the Covenant as a condition of attending) and to which conservatives were invited regardless of geographical origin. It is hard… Read more »
Susannah Clark
14 years ago
Superb post by Father Ron Smith, and a profoundly true quote of Andrew Gerns in Episcopal cafe: “An Elizabethan Catholic approach would require that these bishops (GS) remain in Communion with us – precisely because we differ: because our only unity is found in Christ.” Our unity, our communion, is in Christ alone – who are we, then, to break that communion… but rather, we should seek unity in diversity, and a sort of New Elizabethan settlement, based as you say on prayer and gracious love and respect for the faith integrity of one another. The great genius of the… Read more »
JCF
14 years ago
[Quoted in the Church Times piece] “These Churches had continued “their defiance as they set themselves on a course that contradicts the plain teaching of the Holy Scriptures on matters so fundamental that they affect the very salvation of those involved”.” I don’t get why the GS folk to don’t see that the meme “the plain teaching of the Holy Scriptures” is a NONSENSICAL NON-STARTER. There is NO such thing as a “plain teaching”, ONLY ***varying interpretations*** as anyone w/ a high school education OUGHT to be able to (um) plainly see! How are we supposed to take the GS… Read more »
Chris Smith
14 years ago
The GS bishops are consumed by their own power. It is this power that is corrupting them. They do not preach the love of Jesus but instead the doctrine of hatred and exclusion. They ignorant but they are also dangerous, even to themselves.
Fr John
14 years ago
Fr Ron, Thank you for your commendation. Not everything coming out of Singapore is bad. They like us seek to obedient to God’s Will and Call in the place we are at. For many of us this will be in many different places, and cultures, which can vary within one country. For example in the small island of the United Kingdom we have many different cultures at work. I was brought up in England, of Welsh stock, and find the Scottish episcopal church very different to my beloved church of England. Personally as a priest, who by birth is Gay,… Read more »
Father Ron Smith
14 years ago
“It is hard to place Archbishops Jensen or Duncan in the Global South. – ‘badman’, on Monday – I don’t know about ‘Bishop’ Duncan of ACNA, although he is certainly linked, philosophically with the G.S. religious purity brigade. However, the part of Australia that Abp. Jensen lives, in (Sydney, NSW), is certainly in the Southern Hemisphere – a fact that we in New Zealand, to the E. of Sydney, do regret. However, the majority of Australasians (AUS & NZ), though geographically ‘Global South’, certainly do not aspire to the empire-building philosophy of the G.S.A Re-Asserters. Contrarily, most of us want… Read more »
Perry Butler
14 years ago
have you seen Archbishop Jensen’s thoughts on the Singapore meeting on the GAFCON site?? rather depressing reading…and at the end the suggestion that the “orthodox” in liberal tending provinces need to gird their loins for departure to a “purer” environment.
“You see what you must realise is this: the current issues that defy us are not peculiar to America or to Canada. They are prevalent in England, in Wales, in Scotland, in Australia, in New Zealand, it’s everywhere in the Western world. It’s become the way of life for the media, for the military, for business enterprise, for politicians. So the problem’s been entrenched throughout the Western world.” – former ABP. Peter Akinola, G.S. website – ‘Current issues that DEFY US’? Rather an inflated sense of his own authority in the Anglican setting No surprise, then, about Nigeria’s former Primate… Read more »
Father Ron Smith
14 years ago
“and it really means that the leadership of the vast majority of the Anglican Communion regards itself as being in communion with ACNA and out of fellowship with the other North Americans. This was symbolized by the part played by Archbishop Bob Duncan at the conference, especially when he presided at Holy Communion. Furthermore the welcome accorded to the two bishops from the Communion Partners demonstrated the Global South commitment to Biblical standards as a test of fellowship.” – Abp. Peter Jensen, GAFCON Secretary – Having discreetly announced that he was at the recent GSE4 as an ‘onlooker’ and not… Read more »
The communiqué says TEC and ACoC does “discredit to our witness” and in a way they do, not accepting that the self styled Global South speaks Christ’s Gospel or have a reasonable view of the Bible, or even cite truthful translations of the same…
“If the Archbishop of Canterbury were to be consistent with his thinking, he would be saying that schism is the worse sin because it breaks up the body and tears branches from the vine. An Elizabethan Catholic approach would require that these bishops (GS) remain in Communion with us – precisely because we differ: because our only unity is found in Christ.” – Andrew Gerns, Leading Article, Episcopal Cafe – Andrew Gerns’ thoughts here might be consonant with those of many of us – who never wanted to be separate from anyone else in the Communion, but the circumstances have… Read more »
A simple question. Why, in all their fulminations against the “West” does the C of E (or for that matter the other Anglican Churches in the U.K.)get a free pass? Same-sex unions among clergy in England are known to exist and same-sex blessings take place. There are gay bishops. So why does North America get all the abuse? I assume it’s because they can’t get property and interfere so easily in the U.K. for legal reasons. Or is it because they can’t openly call for the replacement of the C of E, which would be a full attack on +Rowan,… Read more »
Just to clarify-I’m not suggesting that being gay or having gay clergy has anything at all to do with sexual abuse, paedophilia, etc. These are entirely different issues, especially when the issue of official clerical celibacy is considered. I am saying that a culture of deception, especially for public consumption, is unhealthy.
Reading each of these articles as a whole is interesting. The pattern of the article in the The Church Times seems to reflect a concern with the issue of a GS restructuring of the communion so as to place control in the hands of the GS and theology and discipline in the hands of the primates. For the U.S., the lack of democracy in this new structure is at best unappealing, but for the CofE, I wonder, is there an echo here of praemunire? By contrast, the emphasis in some of the comments coming from the US, is the concern… Read more »
Adam, there are no fundamentalist millionaires paying big bucks to break up the CoE.
http://www.edow.org/follow/
“Why ….. does the C of E …… get a free pass?” In large part because the American Right is not bankrolling many of those in the forefront of the attack on the Canadian and US Churches to attack the Church of England, Adam Armstrong.
One is brought to remember 1 Corinthians 13:1 “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.” KJV Standing apart, holding forth a raised palm and proclaiming empty threats based in pique is no sign of charitable love for one’s brothers and sisters in Christ. The hypocrisy would be laughable if not so serious. “We may violate communion-wide agreements and take property not belonging to us because we are right!” says the Global South, “Yet you must crawl to us in the dust repenting… Read more »
Christian Fundamentalism in the Global South conference and Fascism are joined together. These are dangerous human beings. I hope Rowan Williams will ultimately do the right thing and see the danger in their core philosophy. I don’t imagine it will take too much longer before we know the answer.
EmilyH: the hermeneutics project did get off the ground, and it has the potential to be very exciting. It’s called the Bible and Life project and you can find out about it here: http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/news.cfm/2010/1/28/ACNS4680
So “no fags” is right up there with belief in the Resurrection, the Incarnation, Salvation by Faith, and the Trinity.
Where do you suppose our omniscient and divinely inspired primates will insert that into the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds?
They’ll have to insert it somewhere into the Gospels too.
counterlight,
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the elimination of sexual perverts, the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
Coming to an Orthodox Anglican church near you?
The trumpet looks more like a damp squib. We know a lot of Global South primates are vehemently opposed to any association with liberal Anglicans, especially in North America. We know they have broken communion with liberals, refused to attend the Lambeth Conference, boycotted the Standing Committee. No change there. The Global South Encounter was, in fact, a conservative encounter, an invitation only event from which dissenting voices were excluded (you had to sign up to the Ridley-Cambridge draft of the Covenant as a condition of attending) and to which conservatives were invited regardless of geographical origin. It is hard… Read more »
Superb post by Father Ron Smith, and a profoundly true quote of Andrew Gerns in Episcopal cafe: “An Elizabethan Catholic approach would require that these bishops (GS) remain in Communion with us – precisely because we differ: because our only unity is found in Christ.” Our unity, our communion, is in Christ alone – who are we, then, to break that communion… but rather, we should seek unity in diversity, and a sort of New Elizabethan settlement, based as you say on prayer and gracious love and respect for the faith integrity of one another. The great genius of the… Read more »
[Quoted in the Church Times piece] “These Churches had continued “their defiance as they set themselves on a course that contradicts the plain teaching of the Holy Scriptures on matters so fundamental that they affect the very salvation of those involved”.” I don’t get why the GS folk to don’t see that the meme “the plain teaching of the Holy Scriptures” is a NONSENSICAL NON-STARTER. There is NO such thing as a “plain teaching”, ONLY ***varying interpretations*** as anyone w/ a high school education OUGHT to be able to (um) plainly see! How are we supposed to take the GS… Read more »
The GS bishops are consumed by their own power. It is this power that is corrupting them. They do not preach the love of Jesus but instead the doctrine of hatred and exclusion. They ignorant but they are also dangerous, even to themselves.
Fr Ron, Thank you for your commendation. Not everything coming out of Singapore is bad. They like us seek to obedient to God’s Will and Call in the place we are at. For many of us this will be in many different places, and cultures, which can vary within one country. For example in the small island of the United Kingdom we have many different cultures at work. I was brought up in England, of Welsh stock, and find the Scottish episcopal church very different to my beloved church of England. Personally as a priest, who by birth is Gay,… Read more »
“It is hard to place Archbishops Jensen or Duncan in the Global South. – ‘badman’, on Monday – I don’t know about ‘Bishop’ Duncan of ACNA, although he is certainly linked, philosophically with the G.S. religious purity brigade. However, the part of Australia that Abp. Jensen lives, in (Sydney, NSW), is certainly in the Southern Hemisphere – a fact that we in New Zealand, to the E. of Sydney, do regret. However, the majority of Australasians (AUS & NZ), though geographically ‘Global South’, certainly do not aspire to the empire-building philosophy of the G.S.A Re-Asserters. Contrarily, most of us want… Read more »
have you seen Archbishop Jensen’s thoughts on the Singapore meeting on the GAFCON site?? rather depressing reading…and at the end the suggestion that the “orthodox” in liberal tending provinces need to gird their loins for departure to a “purer” environment.
New story from Canada, i.e, Canadians should havet the courage of their convictions and not approve the covenant.
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/issues/2010/136/may/05/article/gs-2010-cant-approve-covenant/?cHash=00f83bac4b
Yes Perry, the thoughts can be found at
http://www.gafcon.org/news/fca_general_secretary_responds_to_the_global_south_to_south_encounter
“You see what you must realise is this: the current issues that defy us are not peculiar to America or to Canada. They are prevalent in England, in Wales, in Scotland, in Australia, in New Zealand, it’s everywhere in the Western world. It’s become the way of life for the media, for the military, for business enterprise, for politicians. So the problem’s been entrenched throughout the Western world.” – former ABP. Peter Akinola, G.S. website – ‘Current issues that DEFY US’? Rather an inflated sense of his own authority in the Anglican setting No surprise, then, about Nigeria’s former Primate… Read more »
“and it really means that the leadership of the vast majority of the Anglican Communion regards itself as being in communion with ACNA and out of fellowship with the other North Americans. This was symbolized by the part played by Archbishop Bob Duncan at the conference, especially when he presided at Holy Communion. Furthermore the welcome accorded to the two bishops from the Communion Partners demonstrated the Global South commitment to Biblical standards as a test of fellowship.” – Abp. Peter Jensen, GAFCON Secretary – Having discreetly announced that he was at the recent GSE4 as an ‘onlooker’ and not… Read more »