And is this the sort of action that our conservative friends consider acceptable?
I shall look forward to reading the robust denunciations of this measure which is surely anything but in the spirit of ‘listening’- as some of the menacing and thuggish responses from Nigerian church members on here have further indicated.
Kurt Hill
19 years ago
I can imagine that David Virtue, and the other evango-fundie Baptist agents in the American Episcopal Church, will report this as a great “victory” for their side. After all, they will point out, Rowan said: “As I said to them this morning, the process that the Windsor report requested is still incomplete and I think it is premature to offer an assessment.” This will no doubt be spun as a “harsh rebuke” to Irish Primate Eames and his view, as Chair of the Windsor Commission, that the American and Canadian Churches have basically done what was asked of them. No… Read more »
Kurt said, “Perhaps Duncan et. al. were whispering in his ear…?” I’d be willing to bet an expensive dinner that this has a *lot* to do with why +Akinola and that crowd haven’t left already. The presence of the so-called Global South (not so “Global” w/o Brazil, South Africa, Mexico, much of Central America, etc…but I digress) in the AC adds a certain sense of legitimacy to the schismatic AAC/Network bunch. If Nigeria & Co. reject the AC and move on with their own communion, the N. American reactionaries will be further exposed as the small, radical minority they are… Read more »
Alan Harrison
19 years ago
The events described in the report are outrageous. The report doesn’t make it clear what offences, if any, were alleged against Mr Mac-Iyalla and his companions, but the behaviour of the police appears to have been corrupt and criminal. It’s also unclear how the group came to be targetted, since they were travelling in taxis at the time of arrest from an impromptu gathering. The reported questioning about the article written by Mr Mac-Iyalla does, howver, sound distinctly sinister.
As long as they have the decency to drop the name ‘anglican’ and go with the `evangelical’ or even ‘patently fundamentalist’ which seems better to characterize Akinola’s actions and manner, I don’t mind. Or, of course, they could stop elevating doctrine to dogma and play politely for a change…
Merseymike
19 years ago
Simeon ; I would go further than that. The last thing the conservatives in ECUSA want – given that they are politically conservative too, and we all know what that means in the USA – is to be dominated by Africa and to be a small cog in an African dominated church. They want to be the accepted Anglicanism under Canterbury in the USA. But I don’t think Akinola really cares a lot about what they think….
Well, this is appalling, but not surprising, is it? Gay men are viewed as a threat to patriarchy. Most traditional cultures are extremely patriarchal. Cultures tend to lash at at perceived threats to their survival.
I am in favor of undermining patriarchy, myself, but that is easy for me to say since the police are not likely to come beat me up & throw me in prison for expressing that opinion (not yet anyway).
That the police in many countries are a danger to the general population is clear. Take Mexico, where workers leave their factories in flocks not to be mugged by underpaid forces of Law on pay-day… That the same corruption is about in Nigeria is no surprise. What I would like to ask, is whether anybody here (brother Emeka, perhaps?) acually knows anything about the position taken (if any) by AB Akinola and the Nigerian Church, with regard to this unsafety and corruption for church members and the Nigerian in the street. Have they reacted to this kind of impromptu justice… Read more »
Simon Dawson
19 years ago
Don’t think this sort of thing is confined to Africa. Have a look at http://www.petertatchell.net/asylum/ugandan.htm to see how we in England treat a Ugandan who is fleeing that sort of persecution. The story outlined in the webpage is not fully up to date. Last weekend Kizza was driven to Scotland, served with deportation papers and then returned to Colnbrook Detention Centre a day later. As one subsequent complaint about this movement says “I note that his English solicitor is not funded to represent him in Scotland. It is difficult to avoid the impression that this pointless transfer to Scottish jurisdiction… Read more »
“Davis Mac-Iyalla and eight members of Changing Attitude Nigeria were arrested and held in Wuse police station, Abuja from 3am Saturday 22 October to Monday 24 October.” Let us not stray from the point. Try REAL! South of some “borders” it ONLY takes a telephone call to someone in “authority” like a loving Bishop or a “ranking/friendly/family” politician/militar (translated means “influence sharing”) to have another telephone call made quickly/effortlessly to secure immediate RELEASE for ANYONE (guilty or not)! No police, no money, no court, no nada necessary. Instant amnesia sets in for everyone like nothing ever happened. No recourse for… Read more »
Alan Harrison
19 years ago
The story recounted by Simon Dawson from Peter Tatchell’s site is deeply worrying. Could I suggest contacting the MP for Hayes & Harlington, John McDonnell, about this issue? In fairness, I should also say that you may find the Tory MP for Uxbridge, John Randall, sympathetic. On the church front, I have just been obliged by uncertainty arising from my unemployment to relinquish the post of secretary of the deanery synod covering Harmondsworth, but would be happy to pass on any concerns people want to raise to the area dean and/or the Bishop.
MM wrote: “They want to be the accepted Anglicanism under Canterbury in the USA. But I don’t think Akinola really cares a lot about what they think….” You are indeed correct. The Neo-Puritan, evangelical fundamentalism in the U.S. is almost entirely driven by extremist, conservative *politics* – not by any recognizable, traditional religious basis. It’s a nasty conglomeration of racism, sexism, and anti-democratic “Christian” dominism, driven by organizations like the IRD. (which should serve as a warning to the AAC and their ilk – “lie down with dogs, wake up with…”) And you’ve nailed +Duncan, +Stanton, et al. as well.… Read more »
And is this the sort of action that our conservative friends consider acceptable?
I shall look forward to reading the robust denunciations of this measure which is surely anything but in the spirit of ‘listening’- as some of the menacing and thuggish responses from Nigerian church members on here have further indicated.
I can imagine that David Virtue, and the other evango-fundie Baptist agents in the American Episcopal Church, will report this as a great “victory” for their side. After all, they will point out, Rowan said: “As I said to them this morning, the process that the Windsor report requested is still incomplete and I think it is premature to offer an assessment.” This will no doubt be spun as a “harsh rebuke” to Irish Primate Eames and his view, as Chair of the Windsor Commission, that the American and Canadian Churches have basically done what was asked of them. No… Read more »
Kurt said, “Perhaps Duncan et. al. were whispering in his ear…?” I’d be willing to bet an expensive dinner that this has a *lot* to do with why +Akinola and that crowd haven’t left already. The presence of the so-called Global South (not so “Global” w/o Brazil, South Africa, Mexico, much of Central America, etc…but I digress) in the AC adds a certain sense of legitimacy to the schismatic AAC/Network bunch. If Nigeria & Co. reject the AC and move on with their own communion, the N. American reactionaries will be further exposed as the small, radical minority they are… Read more »
The events described in the report are outrageous. The report doesn’t make it clear what offences, if any, were alleged against Mr Mac-Iyalla and his companions, but the behaviour of the police appears to have been corrupt and criminal. It’s also unclear how the group came to be targetted, since they were travelling in taxis at the time of arrest from an impromptu gathering. The reported questioning about the article written by Mr Mac-Iyalla does, howver, sound distinctly sinister.
Simeon writes: “a separate Nigerian Communion”…
As long as they have the decency to drop the name ‘anglican’ and go with the `evangelical’ or even ‘patently fundamentalist’ which seems better to characterize Akinola’s actions and manner, I don’t mind. Or, of course, they could stop elevating doctrine to dogma and play politely for a change…
Simeon ; I would go further than that. The last thing the conservatives in ECUSA want – given that they are politically conservative too, and we all know what that means in the USA – is to be dominated by Africa and to be a small cog in an African dominated church. They want to be the accepted Anglicanism under Canterbury in the USA. But I don’t think Akinola really cares a lot about what they think….
Well, this is appalling, but not surprising, is it? Gay men are viewed as a threat to patriarchy. Most traditional cultures are extremely patriarchal. Cultures tend to lash at at perceived threats to their survival.
I am in favor of undermining patriarchy, myself, but that is easy for me to say since the police are not likely to come beat me up & throw me in prison for expressing that opinion (not yet anyway).
That the police in many countries are a danger to the general population is clear. Take Mexico, where workers leave their factories in flocks not to be mugged by underpaid forces of Law on pay-day… That the same corruption is about in Nigeria is no surprise. What I would like to ask, is whether anybody here (brother Emeka, perhaps?) acually knows anything about the position taken (if any) by AB Akinola and the Nigerian Church, with regard to this unsafety and corruption for church members and the Nigerian in the street. Have they reacted to this kind of impromptu justice… Read more »
Don’t think this sort of thing is confined to Africa. Have a look at http://www.petertatchell.net/asylum/ugandan.htm to see how we in England treat a Ugandan who is fleeing that sort of persecution. The story outlined in the webpage is not fully up to date. Last weekend Kizza was driven to Scotland, served with deportation papers and then returned to Colnbrook Detention Centre a day later. As one subsequent complaint about this movement says “I note that his English solicitor is not funded to represent him in Scotland. It is difficult to avoid the impression that this pointless transfer to Scottish jurisdiction… Read more »
“Davis Mac-Iyalla and eight members of Changing Attitude Nigeria were arrested and held in Wuse police station, Abuja from 3am Saturday 22 October to Monday 24 October.” Let us not stray from the point. Try REAL! South of some “borders” it ONLY takes a telephone call to someone in “authority” like a loving Bishop or a “ranking/friendly/family” politician/militar (translated means “influence sharing”) to have another telephone call made quickly/effortlessly to secure immediate RELEASE for ANYONE (guilty or not)! No police, no money, no court, no nada necessary. Instant amnesia sets in for everyone like nothing ever happened. No recourse for… Read more »
The story recounted by Simon Dawson from Peter Tatchell’s site is deeply worrying. Could I suggest contacting the MP for Hayes & Harlington, John McDonnell, about this issue? In fairness, I should also say that you may find the Tory MP for Uxbridge, John Randall, sympathetic. On the church front, I have just been obliged by uncertainty arising from my unemployment to relinquish the post of secretary of the deanery synod covering Harmondsworth, but would be happy to pass on any concerns people want to raise to the area dean and/or the Bishop.
MM wrote: “They want to be the accepted Anglicanism under Canterbury in the USA. But I don’t think Akinola really cares a lot about what they think….” You are indeed correct. The Neo-Puritan, evangelical fundamentalism in the U.S. is almost entirely driven by extremist, conservative *politics* – not by any recognizable, traditional religious basis. It’s a nasty conglomeration of racism, sexism, and anti-democratic “Christian” dominism, driven by organizations like the IRD. (which should serve as a warning to the AAC and their ilk – “lie down with dogs, wake up with…”) And you’ve nailed +Duncan, +Stanton, et al. as well.… Read more »
So there are no official pronouncements by the Church of Nigeria?