Updated Sunday morning and again Sunday evening
A huge conference of conservative Anglicans has been happening in Pittsburgh. See the conference site, the diocesan site, and the Network site.
For press reports of the event, see
New York Times Conservative Episcopalians Warn Church That It Must Change Course or Face Split
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Anglicans urge disgruntled Episcopalians to join them
Associated Press via the Washington Post Anglican Bishops Urge U.S. Church Split
Washington Times Episcopal Church’s rift has asset edge and U.S. Anglicans called to ‘repent’
PBS Anglican Communion Network Meeting (this transcript links to a video report which includes quotes from many senior figures at the conference, well worth watching)
Religion News Service Episcopal Liberals Plan for Division
Update Sunday morning
Later press reports contain important developments:
Washington Times Bolivian ordains Anglican clerics
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Priest, deacons ordained to serve Episcopal splitoffs
and Pittsburgh bishop expects an effort to oust him
Update Sunday evening
Three Global South primates (Drexel Gomez,Datuk Yong Ping Chung, Emmanuel Kolini) held a press conference, and there is a 33 minute video of this (.wmv format) which can be viewed here. The sound is not very good, but it is worth persevering – a better version is promised to replace it soon
Also, another 11 minute video of the Bishop of Pittsburgh summarising the conference here.
(hat tip KH).
I think it is vital that liberals and reappraisers here should be forming stronger and closer links with our friends in ECUSA. I find it so heartening that there are still those brave enough to speak out for what they believe, despite conservative opposition.
NYT says 2400 attended. IIRC that’s fewer than attended +Gene’s consecration.
Duncan, Akinola, and the other Neo-Puritans:
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Stop talking about leaving and just leave so the rest of us can get on with the mission and ministry of the church. And don’t even think about ransacking the store on the way out. Individuals leave the church, not parishes.
As I have noted on my blog in the comments, the AP article was disappointing, especially the headline. But it is good to see the majority of reports get it right.
(sigh) Yes, I *do* wish that all the “conservatives” would *please* dispense with the outrageous PR spin and pointless political maneuvering before GC2006, and just get this over with.
But I seriously wonder if that will happen. The farther along this goes, the more I’m convinced that the AAC-types want revenge before they leave. That they are as motivated by a desire to do harm to us as they are to claims of “orthodoxy.”
Oh, dear! More manufactured claims of victimhood from those actually engaging in exclusion of traditionalists. So predictable!
Kendall, can you be more specific about what is disappointing in the AP story? The quote from Abp Akinola seems to be confirmed elsewhere, and the headline which is, I suspect, based on that quote, therefore does not seem that big a stretch.
I can understand it’s not the headline you want to see, but is there anything else in the AP story that is actually “wrong”?
I strongly recommend the Rev. Dr. Giles Fraser’s Comment in Friday’s Church Times. He talks about the phenomenon of the “Bible Traffic Wardens”, the likes of the Primate and Metropolitan of All Nigeria and his cohorts who seem to have hi-jacked the Anglican Communion. The events in Pittsburgh expose the schismatic GS and Network bishops for the schismatics they really are, hell-bent on robbing the store before they leave – ECUSA’s assets and the Church Pension Fund.
[Simon adds, see here for the link
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/001414.html ]
Alan, I resisted rolling my eyes at your predictable response and decided to ask a question instead. You know, don’t you, that the more extremist “conservatives”* in TEC have a snowball’s chance in Perdition of getting their way at GC2006 or thereafter. That being given, why are you folks staying ? The only, possible reason I can think of is so that you can continue with the now-typical bellicose behavior that has become the norm for AAC sympathizers. I’d respect you guys a LOT more if you had the integrity to actually *live* what you claim to believe, instead of… Read more »
I think some of the above comments are not accurate assessments of what motivates leaders like Akinola and Duncan. It’s more that they cannot understand why ppl who even according to their own stated beliefs are more move-with-the-times liberal humanists than Christians should persist in classifying themselves as Christians.
I wish Kendall Harmon would clarify his objection to the AP Headline “Anglican Bishops Urge U.S. Church Split,” because the headline is entirely in keeping with the comments being made on his blog re the latest round of irregular ordinations. In fact, the commenters by and large seem to think that the schism is already consummated and that they already belong to a denomination which has entirely separated from the Episcopal Church. For example: “Bishop Ihloff [of Maryland] might as well complain about Catholics ministering in his sacred territory without his permission.” “Hello Bp. Ihloff! This is America. Your canons… Read more »
“Bishop Robert Duncan of Pittsburgh said he expects liberal activists in the Episcopal Church to attempt to depose him as bishop here.” Rather like the murderer who kills his parents, and then defends himself saying “Forgive me, I’m an orphan”? +Duncan’s played *host* to an illegal ordination—in direct violation of Windsor. If that’s not *just* cause for a presentment, what is? The democratic majority of ECUSA has been turning the other cheek for so long, we’ve become mistaken for *doormats*. In the Name of the God of *Justice* (and to show God’s *mercy* to all whom Duncan & Co have… Read more »
The more I read the more sad I become. I was at Pittsburgh and was energised and enthused. It was the most encouraging gathering since Plano in 2003. The comments do indicate how divergent are both sides in this. We gathered to share and most of us are convinced that there are two religions now competing. One follows Scripture and the historic Anglican formularies of the Apostolic Faith. The other appears to follows Canons and a mythic form of religion which may be dressed in Christian symbol and language but whose content and message is simply the spirit of the… Read more »
“The more I read the more sad I become.”
Well, I’m with you on that, Ian: my heart is breaking.
O God of infinite compassion and reconciliation: WHY is it, that those who claim to know You *definitively* seem to know nothing of Your LOVE? Why do they condemn/persecute the least of these, Your LGBT children, who are happy w/ the *crumbs* from Your table? Why, Lord, Why???
:-(…
Lord have mercy!
Charlotte,
Don’t hold your breath. Don’t expect accountablity from Heretics who act like they are the new orthodoxy.
The fundamentalist revisionists can say whatever they want to say, but they are supporting a movement which is abandoning Canterbury and the Anglican Communion. It is no more complicated than that. I have only been an Anglican for twenty-nine years, but I grew up in the pre-Vatican 2 Roman Catholic Church, with seventeen years of Roman Catholic religion and theology classes. My faith did not really change, although my understanding certainly did. As a product of Vatican 2, I witnessed, in that faith community, those who refused to accept change from what they felt was the historic church. It did… Read more »
May I offer an opinion on why Kendall Harmon objects to the AP headline? It seems to point to an underlying fracture on the conservative side. Akinola and the Global South conservatives are quite willing to “walk apart” because they are not willing to be part of a communion which even talks about homosexuality. This was shown by the recent amendments to the Church of Nigeria’s constitution. They want to get on with what they see as their mission in their part of the world, and sweep the issue of homosexuality under the carpet, rather than to continue to fight,… Read more »
“…mainstream Episcopal conservatives who are not encouraging schism, engaging in hateful speech & conduct, etc… ” Simeon
You are absolutely right! Thank God most of our American conservatives are Latitudinarians, without mean bones in their bodies!
It is interesting to read the more liberal comments. A general theme is that those who hold a classical, traditionally orthodox position are a) trying to hijack the church, b) pushing their new beliefs, c) horribly breaking boundaries by their ordinations and linkages. How is it that these commenters appear to be ignorant of the fact that the Lambeth Conference (resolution 1.10 reaffirmed), the Primates Meeting, The Windsor Report, etc. all affirm, reaffirm and promote the same position as these traditional, conservatively orthodox members of ECUSA? Why is it that you will be so happy when this group gives up… Read more »
Jim ; I think it goes further than that.
I also think that the US conservatives want to be in charge and the accepted outpost of Canterbury in the US.
I don’t think they are too enthralled at the idea of being a tiny denomination led from Nigeria.
Kurt: I don’t usually see the term “Latitudinarian” and and the term “conservative” put together. However, it is not an altogether incorrect classification. There are always some soft-core conservatives without any real conviction who are willing to swing with the times. Likewise, this creature is balanced in the pews by some latitudinarian wishy-washy liberals who lack conviction and would also swing with the times if things were going the other way. And, it is true that both species lack what you refer to as “mean” bones–but, only because they also lack any “backbone” when it comes to the issues in… Read more »
May I remind Davis in Wisconsin, that there were 14 other Resolutions at Lambeth 1998?
They are never heard of.
This might have something to do with today’s situation in the Anglican Communion ;=)
Both sides in this argument are pretty disgusting right about now. Everyone sounds like a bunch of boys in a schoolyard match of King of the Mountain, trying to shout and shove one another till someone comes out on top. What is more important: all this bickering over who’s right (when that really isn’t our job to begin with!) and who’s going to be in control, or doing what Christ commanded and helping those who are so desperately in need? Funny, I don’t see fighting anywhere in the commandment to love one another.
Jim, thanks for your “read” on the situation of North American conservatives vis-a-vis the Network. I’d also thought I’d seen signs of a split, though my “read” is closer to Merseymike’s. That is, I believe I see a larger group of North American conservatives willing to distance themselves from ECUSA and ACoC and possibly join a Network-affiliated church, but unwilling to go along if at some point the Network breaks with Canterbury, or ceases to be recognized by Canterbury. I think I also see a smaller group who are ready to form a worldwide “continuing church,” to be comprised of… Read more »
I am troubled. I do not belong to the AAC; I do not belong to Via Media. I belong to Christ. I claim only that which already has a claim on me. Seems a faithful (and orthodox) place to be. I have heard and seen so much before and since GC03. I hear those from various perspectives within my own diocese (Central Florida). Concerning the Pittsburgh conference, I have read quotes in the media reports and read countless comments from blogs across the perspective. From both sides of the aisle, most of what I see are people who, with all… Read more »
Marc:
Your prayers are your own, but I would pray for a quick, fair and painless separation of the two sides. There is nothing to be gained from staying together at this point.
Steven
Marc, I’m in the same diocese you are. You might think of me as one of the vilifiers — and in fact I might be. But in my own mind, of course, I’m merely a terrified middle-aged woman — frightened to death to be living in this diocese, where what reads to me as extreme and lethal prejudice is proudly displayed, and from the pulpit, no less. I tend to operate on the principle that bullies will back down if one stands up to them. But I would rather not have to do it at all. I don’t love conflict,… Read more »
“Can we all commit to ongoing listening-discussion of the intelligent arguments that can be made on all sides?” Aye, Charlotte, there’s the rub: I saw one of the episcopal (presumably African, though I’m not certain) participants declare at the Pittsburgh event (to *great* applause) “The time for talk is OVER!” [Which is why I would add “It’s time for non-violent civil disobedience”: all ECUSA bishops should commit to attending ANY conference of “world-wide Anglican bishops” *whether or not* they’re invited. Call it a new “Salt March”! A Freedom Ride! :-D] Steven and MerseyMike: how in the world is “amicable divorce”… Read more »
Charlotte, I think your read is fairly accurate. The report I heard from someone who attended an Essentials conference is that there are both “stayers” and “leavers” (his terms) in the movement, those who are committed to staying within the church and in communion with Canterbury, but distancing themselves from actions they disagree with, and those who intend to leave (or have already left) if they can’t get their way. Essentials even makes this distinction on their web site. Maybe it the suspicious lawyer in me that says “follow the money” and ascribes financial, rather than purely theological motives to… Read more »
JCF ; as much as I agree with your stance, I think the realistic possibility of us all coming to a point of agreement is nil.
Thus rather than spend the next however many years arguing, I think that a split within the Anglican church would be preferable.
Like you, I will never give up working for change.
JC: You should know by now that I have a lot of respect for you as a person even though I seldom agree with a thing you say. The reason for my respect is simple: You seem to have a very low nastiness quotient, which makes for a nice change on this site (despite the fact that you are a steady advocate for the wrong side). But, I think your own nice-ness is blinding you (and maybe some others on this site) to the facts here. Merseymike and I are right on this one. There is going to be a… Read more »
Charlotte,
I tried to e-mail you privately, but couldn’t easily get past your spam protection. Just wanted to let you know that I’m not (necessarily) speaking of anyone in particular; certianly not you. It’s just a general sense that I have (don’t want to villify anyone while decrying villification…)
Anyway, (given a comment I remember you making some time ago) you’re not alone in this diocese. There are a handful of us who are faithful, orthodox clergy and laity who want no a part of the AAC or Network.
Peace and blessings,
Marc
MM wrote: “JCF ; as much as I agree with your stance, I think the realistic possibility of us all coming to a point of agreement is nil.” Amen – to BOTH. JCF is an authentic and honorable person whose stance I can also agree with. But I’m afraid it just ain’t gonna happen… steven’s post above is pretty well spot-on. We can either get an amicable divorce now, or a nasty one later. And I fail to see how a nasty divorce, or remaining in an abusive relationship, is good for anyone involved. (Yes! I agreed with steven! And… Read more »
Goran:
Maybe I’m missing something here. Do the 14 other resolutions have anything to do with what is in dispute here? If not, why bring them up?
Steven
Steven,
Yes, I believe you’re missing something.
Precisely that there were 15 resolutions at Lambeth 1998 and not 1.
That’s why I bring it up.
David Huff: I think that more and more liberals are coming around to this way of thinking, so don’t feel like you are all alone. And, as for agreeing with me–well, as someone said, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Likewise, even a die-hard curmudgeonly traditionalist like me can’t be wrong all the time (as much as I try). Also, thanks for the spot of humor at the end. Posts on this board are generally pretty humorless, ranging from righteous indignation to . . . well, even more righteous indignation. I think the worse will be over… Read more »
Goran:
Who cares how many resolutions there were? That has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. The only resolution at issue is the one ECUSA has spurned.
Steven
And the 14 resolutions of Lambeth 1998 that the other Provinces have spurned?
What about them? You don’t care?
Do they not count in you eyes?
Goran:
You’re playing games. I am aware of no communion-wide outrage over breaches of the other 14 by anyone, nor am I aware of why you would argue that they have been breached or how you would back up this accusation. Frankly, this is a red herring and I am still at a loss to try and figure out what kind of point you think that you are making with this. LOL
Steven
I think his point is this. Some of the other resolutions are not being observed either. Their content is immaterial: either resolutions are binding or they are not.
Of course, the fact is that nothing about Lambeth Conferences is legally binding upon anyone.
But if somebody believes they are binding, then it is illogical not to agree that all of them are binding.
Simon: This is exactly what I have been trying to get out of Goran–which ones are being breached and by who? Finally, will the ones who are allegedly in breach agree that they are in breach? This is already a distinction in terms of ECUSA. I don’t think there is any doubt or issue about ECUSA’s breach, nor do I think its advocates would deny its willful and knowing breach. They have, in effect, entered a guilty plea. However, allegations of other parties breaching other provisions are, as far as I know, not established by proof, confession, or even acclaim.… Read more »
Hippokrezyyy!
And, of course, political propaganda, clad in self righteousness ;=)
HOW CAN I GET TO THE CONFERENCE I WILL LIKE TO BE THERE