Curiously, the dates for the supposed ‘meeting’ coincide with dates fixed by the Art Council for a govt sponsored “National Arts Carnival” also in Abuja. Why do I suspect someone wants to take pictures of masquerades and other carnival dressed people and identify them as ‘gay’? Maybe it is also because calls to Davis’ nigerian phone never seem to go thru’.
Anyway I pray no one stops the meeting if it is true. Would sure like to put a face to this mysterious young ‘knight’.
And pray tell me, what’s mysterious about someone using his own name?
And why “meeting”?
Charlotte
18 years ago
The Revd Canon AkinTunde Popoola, Church Of Nigeria Communications Department, is right to practice a hermeneutic of suspicion. After all, in his country people’s names get signed to letters, and those letters then get published worldwide, all without the approval of their supposed signatories, who then protest indignantly and demand their names be taken off. One can’t be too careful whom one believes in Nigeria.
“Why do I suspect someone wants to take pictures of masquerades and other carnival dressed people and identify them as ‘gay’?” Yes, we’ve seen this tactic many times . . . by *right-wing bigots* [How many times does the entire LGBT community—including LGBT Christians—-get represented (in anti-gay propaganda) by the *visually most extreme* participants at pride marches? How many often does some queer person’s particular fetish, somewhere, get represented as the kind of spousal love expressed by ALL LGBT couples?] Enough of this kind of “They’re all the same” prejudice already! [And *God protect the safety* of the members/allies of… Read more »
There is nothing even slightly mysterious in Davis Mac-Iyalla’s membership of the Kiight’s of St. Christoper. There are numerous mentions to be found of the order. The Diocese of Delta West, for example, has a Chaplain to the Knights of St Christopher and the Diocese of Owerri mentions the Knights’ President as one of its officals. In January 2002, Presiding Bishop Griswold of the United States attended a service in Onitsha Nigeria which included a “rededication of the Knights and Lady Knights of the Order of St. Christopher.” http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_20551_ENG_HTM.htm This is similar to the Roman Catholic church’s tradition maintaining various… Read more »
Ray
18 years ago
Thanks for that webpage BrianMk – it was news to me – just over three years ago and the praise that Bishop Akinola was giving Bishop Griswold was very moving. And Bishop Griswold was totally upfront on his views on homosexuality too.
“[And *God protect the safety* of the members/allies of Changing Attitude-Nigeria]” said JC. Amen to that. I do hope that all these recent moves to visibilty, very public assembly and the encouragment of people to come out of the closet by Changing Attitude Nigeria is initiated and driven by the people OF Nigeria who are sensitive to the atmosphere, culture, sensibilities, levels of private and societal prejudice and the rate and acceptance of change IN Nigeria. I hope its not initiated and driven by outside factors. I support Changing Attitude completely. I’m just worried, that’s all. What with all Tunde’s… Read more »
Tunde
18 years ago
Careful!! My only ever reference to ‘Jungle Justice’ on this site was to say refute someone who referred to it by stressing that such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria neither do I know of any ordained minister in the church that advocates such. Also note that Davis remains mysterious as he wants to be listened to but has not told us of any priest denying him such. He claims to have been made a knight by age 30 by a Bishop who has now gone to be with the Lord in a diocese where nobody seems to… Read more »
There are genuine reasons for concern here. When Christopher Senteza attended LGCM’s “Halfway to Lambeth” Conference he returned to Uganda to find his home ransacked by “security agents” and a warrant for his arrest waiting for him. He had to go into hiding.
Tunde wrote: “My only ever reference to ‘Jungle Justice’ on this site was to say refute someone who referred to it by stressing that such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria neither do I know of any ordained minister in the church that advocates such.” The question is not whether “such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria” or whether “any ordained minister in the church advocates such”, but whether the Church of Nigeria does it utmost in Nigeria, to witness to the Gospel of the Lord and to the Tradition of the Church, by loudly rejecting… Read more »
Kurt
18 years ago
I hope they’re wearing bullet-proof vests. Of course, there is not much one can do against suicide bombers, can one? I will pray for them during our American Thanksgiving Day weekend.
You are quite right on that point, Tunde, my sincere apologies for getting you mixed up with someone else who was commenting from your ‘side of the fence’ (ie: anti-gay stance). Big faux pas. I am sorry for my mistake. (the poster in question was Emeke – Emeke, Emeke come out, where ever you are) As a priest in the Nigerian Church, Tunde, in a country where ‘Jungle Justice’ is a reality (I realise you are living in a difficult political situation regarding the church’s relationship to its Moslem neighbours who ridicule and scorn any positive institutional acceptance of people… Read more »
Charlotte
18 years ago
Tunde, what is the Church of Nigeria doing publicly to dissociate itself from “Jungle Justice”? What public steps has it taken to ensure the safety of Gay and Lesbian Nigerians and/or to condemn “Jungle Justice” attacks on them? Without deeds, your words are just a puff of air. Tunde, the Church of Nigeria, like all Churches in the Anglican Communion, was enjoined by Resolution 1.10 of the 12th Lambeth Conference in 1999: “to listen to the experience of homosexual persons” (Section c) “to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation and to condemn irrational fear of homosexuals,… Read more »
Changing Attitude England has been giving Davis Mac-Iyalla and the developing Changing Attitude Network Nigeria as much appropriate support as possible since the network was formed. Appropriate support means encouragement and advice, based on the experience of our work for the past 10 years in England, testing with Davis whether what is appropriate and has worked here is also appropriate for Nigeria. We have both, Davis and myself, been learning from each other as the group has developed. I have been cautious and advised patience and safety at all times. All the intitaives have been taken locally, and none from… Read more »
Thank you very much Colin Coward for that clarification. Very interesting and encouraging. Keep up the excellent work. If I had a hat (they are reputed to encourage hair loss) I would take it off to you and your colleagues at Changing Attitude worldwide.
Tunde
18 years ago
Colin, Charlotte, et.al, Hope I have been clear enough that there is no record of any Nigerian homosexual that has sought assistance or even a listening ear and has been turned away. The three Anglican Dioceses in Abuja has over 300 Anglican Churches. If Davis is an Anglican in Abuja, which one does he attend? The fourth possible diocese of which he claims knighthood does not know him. I still ask; does he exist? Hope someone is not being taking for a ride. If he exists, please encourage him to contact me at my email below and I will try… Read more »
Merseymike
18 years ago
Given previous comments that have been made by members of your church on this forum and elsewhere, Tunde, I do not think that their safety could be guaranteed.
Still, when the split comes, we will offer them support here.
Dear Tunde, I am very glad that you take such an interest in Thinking Anglicans, and in the importance of lesbian and gay people being listened to in Nigeria. I am very sad that you imply all the time that I am being taken for a fool and that Davis Mac-Iyalla either doesn’t exist or is a liar. That is a very, very serious accusation for a Christian to make. Davis has sent me pictures of himself being confirmed by Bishop Ugede and making his first communion, being invested as a knight, being authorised as a lay reader, and preaching.… Read more »
Tunde
18 years ago
Dear Colin, …that Davis Mac-Iyalla either doesn’t exist or is a liar. That is a very, very serious accusation for a Christian to make. – Colin Pity Sir. Not accusing him. Only saying things do not add up. Many questions but will ask few. Have you met him in person? Have you been supporting him also in cash without proper verification of activities? Your promo says you are one of those to give presentations at the meeting. Are you already in Abuja? Today, I have gone round most places that can accommodate even 500 people and no one seems to… Read more »
Dave
18 years ago
Dear Colin, I’m looking forward to reading the official report from Changing Attitudes of your attendance at the purported 1000 strong CANN meeting in Abuja this weekend (or not!)
Merseymike
18 years ago
The official report has been issued; can I request apologies from both Dave and Tunde for untruthful allegations?
Peter
18 years ago
Anyone who looks twice at the “official report” should be a little bit hesitant to cheer. Where were the meetings held? Where are the news reports (There is nothing in the Sun or the NY Times)? Why not publish one or two photos of it all?
Tunde
18 years ago
Official reports? what i saw on HOB is a write- up based on the promo of course ommiting the part about Colin giving a presentation. Maybe you can point to any site that convincingly shows such a meeting held.
There are gays in Nigeria. Some even do meet. Unfortunately for CA, they seem to have been duped. Their guy could not even rent a crowd as some politicians do. If you can prove 1000 or even 500 gay Anglicans met in Abuja last weekend, i owe Colin (and Davis) apologies.
Curiously, the dates for the supposed ‘meeting’ coincide with dates fixed by the Art Council for a govt sponsored “National Arts Carnival” also in Abuja. Why do I suspect someone wants to take pictures of masquerades and other carnival dressed people and identify them as ‘gay’? Maybe it is also because calls to Davis’ nigerian phone never seem to go thru’.
Anyway I pray no one stops the meeting if it is true. Would sure like to put a face to this mysterious young ‘knight’.
Loosing souls rather, to bigotry and self-righteousness.
Tunde,
Why indeed do you suspect that? Any reasons?
And pray tell me, what’s mysterious about someone using his own name?
And why “meeting”?
The Revd Canon AkinTunde Popoola, Church Of Nigeria Communications Department, is right to practice a hermeneutic of suspicion. After all, in his country people’s names get signed to letters, and those letters then get published worldwide, all without the approval of their supposed signatories, who then protest indignantly and demand their names be taken off. One can’t be too careful whom one believes in Nigeria.
“Why do I suspect someone wants to take pictures of masquerades and other carnival dressed people and identify them as ‘gay’?” Yes, we’ve seen this tactic many times . . . by *right-wing bigots* [How many times does the entire LGBT community—including LGBT Christians—-get represented (in anti-gay propaganda) by the *visually most extreme* participants at pride marches? How many often does some queer person’s particular fetish, somewhere, get represented as the kind of spousal love expressed by ALL LGBT couples?] Enough of this kind of “They’re all the same” prejudice already! [And *God protect the safety* of the members/allies of… Read more »
There is nothing even slightly mysterious in Davis Mac-Iyalla’s membership of the Kiight’s of St. Christoper. There are numerous mentions to be found of the order. The Diocese of Delta West, for example, has a Chaplain to the Knights of St Christopher and the Diocese of Owerri mentions the Knights’ President as one of its officals. In January 2002, Presiding Bishop Griswold of the United States attended a service in Onitsha Nigeria which included a “rededication of the Knights and Lady Knights of the Order of St. Christopher.” http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_20551_ENG_HTM.htm This is similar to the Roman Catholic church’s tradition maintaining various… Read more »
Thanks for that webpage BrianMk – it was news to me – just over three years ago and the praise that Bishop Akinola was giving Bishop Griswold was very moving. And Bishop Griswold was totally upfront on his views on homosexuality too.
The bit about knights was also interesting!
“[And *God protect the safety* of the members/allies of Changing Attitude-Nigeria]” said JC. Amen to that. I do hope that all these recent moves to visibilty, very public assembly and the encouragment of people to come out of the closet by Changing Attitude Nigeria is initiated and driven by the people OF Nigeria who are sensitive to the atmosphere, culture, sensibilities, levels of private and societal prejudice and the rate and acceptance of change IN Nigeria. I hope its not initiated and driven by outside factors. I support Changing Attitude completely. I’m just worried, that’s all. What with all Tunde’s… Read more »
Careful!! My only ever reference to ‘Jungle Justice’ on this site was to say refute someone who referred to it by stressing that such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria neither do I know of any ordained minister in the church that advocates such. Also note that Davis remains mysterious as he wants to be listened to but has not told us of any priest denying him such. He claims to have been made a knight by age 30 by a Bishop who has now gone to be with the Lord in a diocese where nobody seems to… Read more »
There are genuine reasons for concern here. When Christopher Senteza attended LGCM’s “Halfway to Lambeth” Conference he returned to Uganda to find his home ransacked by “security agents” and a warrant for his arrest waiting for him. He had to go into hiding.
Tunde wrote: “My only ever reference to ‘Jungle Justice’ on this site was to say refute someone who referred to it by stressing that such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria neither do I know of any ordained minister in the church that advocates such.” The question is not whether “such cannot be supported by the Church of Nigeria” or whether “any ordained minister in the church advocates such”, but whether the Church of Nigeria does it utmost in Nigeria, to witness to the Gospel of the Lord and to the Tradition of the Church, by loudly rejecting… Read more »
I hope they’re wearing bullet-proof vests. Of course, there is not much one can do against suicide bombers, can one? I will pray for them during our American Thanksgiving Day weekend.
You are quite right on that point, Tunde, my sincere apologies for getting you mixed up with someone else who was commenting from your ‘side of the fence’ (ie: anti-gay stance). Big faux pas. I am sorry for my mistake. (the poster in question was Emeke – Emeke, Emeke come out, where ever you are) As a priest in the Nigerian Church, Tunde, in a country where ‘Jungle Justice’ is a reality (I realise you are living in a difficult political situation regarding the church’s relationship to its Moslem neighbours who ridicule and scorn any positive institutional acceptance of people… Read more »
Tunde, what is the Church of Nigeria doing publicly to dissociate itself from “Jungle Justice”? What public steps has it taken to ensure the safety of Gay and Lesbian Nigerians and/or to condemn “Jungle Justice” attacks on them? Without deeds, your words are just a puff of air. Tunde, the Church of Nigeria, like all Churches in the Anglican Communion, was enjoined by Resolution 1.10 of the 12th Lambeth Conference in 1999: “to listen to the experience of homosexual persons” (Section c) “to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation and to condemn irrational fear of homosexuals,… Read more »
Changing Attitude England has been giving Davis Mac-Iyalla and the developing Changing Attitude Network Nigeria as much appropriate support as possible since the network was formed. Appropriate support means encouragement and advice, based on the experience of our work for the past 10 years in England, testing with Davis whether what is appropriate and has worked here is also appropriate for Nigeria. We have both, Davis and myself, been learning from each other as the group has developed. I have been cautious and advised patience and safety at all times. All the intitaives have been taken locally, and none from… Read more »
Amen to all that, Colin. Thanks! 😀
Thank you very much Colin Coward for that clarification. Very interesting and encouraging. Keep up the excellent work. If I had a hat (they are reputed to encourage hair loss) I would take it off to you and your colleagues at Changing Attitude worldwide.
Colin, Charlotte, et.al, Hope I have been clear enough that there is no record of any Nigerian homosexual that has sought assistance or even a listening ear and has been turned away. The three Anglican Dioceses in Abuja has over 300 Anglican Churches. If Davis is an Anglican in Abuja, which one does he attend? The fourth possible diocese of which he claims knighthood does not know him. I still ask; does he exist? Hope someone is not being taking for a ride. If he exists, please encourage him to contact me at my email below and I will try… Read more »
Given previous comments that have been made by members of your church on this forum and elsewhere, Tunde, I do not think that their safety could be guaranteed.
Still, when the split comes, we will offer them support here.
Dear Tunde, I am very glad that you take such an interest in Thinking Anglicans, and in the importance of lesbian and gay people being listened to in Nigeria. I am very sad that you imply all the time that I am being taken for a fool and that Davis Mac-Iyalla either doesn’t exist or is a liar. That is a very, very serious accusation for a Christian to make. Davis has sent me pictures of himself being confirmed by Bishop Ugede and making his first communion, being invested as a knight, being authorised as a lay reader, and preaching.… Read more »
Dear Colin, …that Davis Mac-Iyalla either doesn’t exist or is a liar. That is a very, very serious accusation for a Christian to make. – Colin Pity Sir. Not accusing him. Only saying things do not add up. Many questions but will ask few. Have you met him in person? Have you been supporting him also in cash without proper verification of activities? Your promo says you are one of those to give presentations at the meeting. Are you already in Abuja? Today, I have gone round most places that can accommodate even 500 people and no one seems to… Read more »
Dear Colin, I’m looking forward to reading the official report from Changing Attitudes of your attendance at the purported 1000 strong CANN meeting in Abuja this weekend (or not!)
The official report has been issued; can I request apologies from both Dave and Tunde for untruthful allegations?
Anyone who looks twice at the “official report” should be a little bit hesitant to cheer. Where were the meetings held? Where are the news reports (There is nothing in the Sun or the NY Times)? Why not publish one or two photos of it all?
Official reports? what i saw on HOB is a write- up based on the promo of course ommiting the part about Colin giving a presentation. Maybe you can point to any site that convincingly shows such a meeting held.
There are gays in Nigeria. Some even do meet. Unfortunately for CA, they seem to have been duped. Their guy could not even rent a crowd as some politicians do. If you can prove 1000 or even 500 gay Anglicans met in Abuja last weekend, i owe Colin (and Davis) apologies.