Updated Monday
Changing Attitude has reported that: Changing Attitude Nigeria holds successful first General Meeting.
Some pictures are included (scroll down).
Several commenters on this site have questioned whether this event really occurred. Here are some Nigerian newspaper reports from the Vanguard which shed an interesting light on the matter:
Gays, lesbians unveil selves:
Ignore them—Archbishop Ademowo
Everybody must rise up against it —Rev. (Mrs) George
Update
Here is a detailed report of the event from the Nigerian Sun
Amazing Nigerian gays and lesbians hold extraordinary meeting
and an interview as well:
We are set to take Nigeria by storm, says leader of the gay and lesbian movement
Can I ask how the advice of the Archbishop et al bears any relation to the direction to listen to and have dialogue with, gay and lesbian Christians? It is also clear that this is about a much more deep-seated homophobic culture and has actually very little to do with theology It surely must be crystal clear that the conservative premoderns of Nigeria are not interested in dialogue or challenges to their certainties. There is simply no point of compromise, even the ability to listen to each other is no longer a real possibility. And we will be much more… Read more »
The first headline is priceless.
I wonder if Tunde ever found his way, it would be interesting to hear from him.
I thought Colin was to be there, but it seems a paper was read for him, did anyone from Changing Attitude UK attend? It would be good to have their report.
I would be interested to hear from someone who was actually at this meeting. Original publicity said that Colin Coward would be there, but obviously he wasn’t. If anyone reading Thinking Anglicans was there, could they please tell us what really happened? Thanks!
Judging from the responses from Nigerian bishops, it seems that none of them attended to listen to the experiences of gay and lesbian Anglicans — meaning that they are in violation of the Lambeth resolutions. Maybe Bishop Griswold should announce a state of impaired communion because of their open flounting of Lambeth (pardon my sarcasm, but I am getting tired of the North Americans simply rolling with the punches without pointing out the hypocrisy).
I like and respect the position of ++York–“everybody just cool it!”
The nearest to independent confirmation that the purported meeting of 2000 people actually took place seems to be this: “Interestingly, further investigation by Sunday Vanguard revealed that such people have already made up their minds to live their normal lives notwithstanding the disposition of the society to their plight. They demonstrated their effrontery recently with an Annual General Meeting of gays and lesbians in the country in Abuja. The meeting which held under the auspices of Changing Attitude of Nigeria (CAN) resolved that prejudice against them in the church was as “unacceptable as racism or prejudice against women”. The meeting… Read more »
“Everybody must rise up against it”: that’s not a POV, that’s the language of the *pogrom*—springing straight from the Father of Lies.
In the Name of Lord Jesus Christ, I cast it out!
As far as the CA site, the pictures seem to suggest yet another “gay and lesbian Anglican” event in which lesbians were *few*—but that’s true even of too many LGBT (U.S.) Episcopalian events, also! {grumble-grumble}
I say this as a challenge to my gay male Anglican brothers: *ask lesbians* how to make LGBT Anglican gatherings *more welcoming to them*.
[It certainly doesn’t help the homophobic obsession over “men’s bits” if these “lesbian and gay” events are all-male (as they too frequently are)]
As others have said: the problem is *patriarchy*.
Well, Dave, I haven’t a clue whether the meeting happened or not, but it certainly seems to suit homophobic Nigerian conservatives to believe that it did!
I don’t care if only 10 people showed up to this thing. It’s a “hair-pin drop” heard round the world (to use a now very quaint expression). The first public marches for gay-lesbian rights in America in the 1960s usually drew barely a dozen people running a gauntlet of hecklers and gawkers. Today, these parades draw thousands; and in New York, the mayor and an official police band participate. Who knows? 40 years from now the Mayor of Lagos might be marching in the Nigerian parade.
The photos from the “meeting” are most interesting. Where are the hundreds and hundreds of participants? Three men (gays??) hugging each other and a photo from a café….No names, no nothing!
Dave!
Why these accusations? Why do you doubt this meeting? Why do you say “meeting”?
Why indeed do you care – this does not regard you in the least. Worse, you are against this meeting ever taking place.
The Nigerian Sun has an article:
http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/abujareports/2005/dec/05/abujaroport-05-12-2005-001.htm
Their estimate is that about a thousand attended, but as far as numbers are concerned, I agree with Counterlight.
Some reactions to the above posts. The first press release we issued gave the impression that I was attending the Nigeria meeting and delivering my paper in person, which I had never planned to do. I apologise to all who were thus misinformed. Where does the number of 2,000 come from? Nothing CA Nigeria or England has published claims such an attendance. I’m also sad that none of the pictures reveal that any lesbians were present, though Davis tells me they were. I am also disappointed that none of the pictures show more than 30 in one frame. Davis sent… Read more »
So where’s the report from the New York Times reporter who was there? Or have we been misinformed about her/his presence too?
This proved there are Gays and lesbians in Nigeria, there is no doubt about that. We have to tell ourselves the truth, Church of Nigeria have to devise another means of reaching them. It is known that the group have been declared themselves.
I hope people will read the reports with open minds. Most were quoting Davis (finally he has a face) the vanguard did a story on it saying over 2000 registered, Sun interviewing him says 1000, and CA report says 360, then 800. I presume all reports emanated from same source. Nice to know he at least acknowledged funding from Colin. Hope I have pushed him to spending some of the funds collected for feeding and accommodating 1000 people for three nights. The background for the photographs resembles the joints around the initially advertised venue. Different people including myself kept checking… Read more »
Listening, Tunde, does not mean only those who believe what you think the Bible says. That sort of condition is tantamount to not listening at all. I haven’t a clue as to the rest of the facts as to whether the meeting happend or not, but it’s clear that you are only interested in listening to people who are prepared to agree with you. A significant proportion of us here in the CofE do not agree with you, and we never will – thats why I shall be having my civil partnership next year. So will many other gay and… Read more »
Definitely more black faces here than there were by the Red Sea.
“They are not being molested.” Tunde
Hogwash!
LGBT were molested and arrested/tormented made to pay bribes in Nigeria recently (or didn’t you read/believe the NEWS report posted here while Akinola was conveniently out-of-town in Egypt?).
I liked your wry remark Goran, it made me laugh!
Thanks.
Given that gay and lesbian people are criminalised in Nigeria, with the Church’s backing , I would take Tunde’s observations with a large wheelbarrow of salt.
“They are not being molested.” Tunde
Hogwash — part 2!
Tunde, I believe it is the case that in your country men can be executed for having sex with one another, and that many have been. If this is not true, please give me facts to prove it.
We might argue over the semantics of “molested,” but surely we can agree that the death penalty is the government’s attempt to put a crimp in the quality of one’s life, no?
The really sad thing is the suppression of the truth (see Archbishop Ademowo’s request to the Vanguard to not write anything about the conference). This is not the first time I’ve witnessed an Anglican minister suppressing the truth. I’ve even had one say that when Paul said not to suppress the truth (Romans 1:18) it was only referring to the Gospel. (In other words it’s okay to suppress the truth if it is not gospel, or if it is gospel that is not convenient to the powers that be). Further, on arguments from the threats to the angels in Sodom… Read more »
Cheryl,
Which ‘truth’? that someone claimed 1000, 2000, 360 or well, maybe 800 attended an Anglican religious meeting for hours with no programme of service, no minister, but a well known master of ceremony(!) with a Muslim name who had appeared on National TV as gay?
I think the Vanguard did a good job of devoting much of the article to the issues surrounding the practice and not to the fictitious meeting.
The Church’s love should not be exploited to give relevance to lies.
“It’s starting to look like it is okay to…have abusive sex; as long as it is not homosexual.”
…well that’s not a million miles away from the message of Genesis 19. That having failed to identify the 10 righteous men who would have saved Sodom from destruction, God saved the family of a man who had just offered up his unmarried daughters to be gang-raped by a crowd which presumably included their fiances. The same daughters who would go on to get their father drunk so they could get pregnant by him. Not exactly the perfect family role models.
“that someone claimed 1000, 2000, 360 or well, maybe 800 attended” said Tunde. Um, I’m past caring enough to go and recheck all these reports, but I don’t think you said a truth there, Tunde. I see no evidence that ‘someONE’ has claimed all these differing figures. These are from different reports, different reporters, different organisations, some from the same reporter referring to different periods of the event, some from before the event in anticipation of expected numbers. It really is astonishing the degree to which people are trying to cast doubt on, and question the integrity of, other Christians,… Read more »
AUgustus
I think Tunde is telling the truth that’s all. Nothing like hearing the real news from the ground.
Terry
I wasn’t commenting about the meeting, Tunde. I was commenting on the attitudes of your country and your church to its gay citizens and members.
You mean he is telling the truth about the treatment of gays and lesbians in Nigeria?
I don;t think Amnesty International would agree.
And given a choice between an organisation I respect such as AI, and the Church of Nigeria – well, there’s no contest really, is there?
MerseyMike
This TA article is about some meeting in Nigeria. I am just staying on topic. I happen to know Tunde personally and know he won’t lie about things like this.
“And given a choice between an organisation I respect such as AI, and the Church of Nigeria – well, there’s no contest really, is there?” . . . and that’s really the issue, isn’t? As refers to the previous “Europe is a Spiritual Desert” bit, the TRUTH of the matter is that there is heck of a lot *more of the Gospel in Amnesty International* (which makes no claims to it) than there is in the Church of Nigeria (which, largely through its Primate, claims to be its sole legit interpreter). For Anglicanism and its mission, that’s more than a… Read more »
Let’s remember to not paint with too broadly a brush, I daresay the entire “Church of Nigeria” is more than one or two persons. It is after all, 25 million-odd Christian souls! Let us also keep in mind that we are a Communion. Now, this might be difficult to keep in mind and in practice when even others in it, seem intent on tearing down/attacking, etc (however you wish to term the unhealthy and unfair attacks against gays and lesbians). But I would think that if we keep the Lord in our sights, and his requests that we treat our… Read more »
rmf — It seems to me from the language used by persons in the video produced by the ACN & the fact that certain GSP refused to take Communion with the other primates that the split is already real, even if not yet clearly formalized nor its precise bundaries clearly deliniated. One can insist on inclusivity but one cannot prevent departure (even the rack & the bonfire were unable to accomplish that). And as to forgiveness — I certainly have the obligation as a follower of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to forgive wrongs done me — I have no… Read more »
I am somewhat confused by your statement about forgiveness? Any way, my points are along the lines of: (1) a difference of opinion or on points of theology, even if quite serious, does not constitute a split, as far as I know, no dicoese or province has left the Communion, depsite some strong language; (2) if there is a split, we should not kick on the way out, as if some people leaving, in some way means the end of certain beliefs or attittudes; (3) we should work to prevent a split ,as best we can, by keeping the hand… Read more »
rmf — Sorry, I don’t know how to clarify what I said about forgiveness — telling gays & lesbians to suffer for the sake of unity is too raw for me, I fear. As to staying together — no one in the North American Churches has called for anyone to be expelled from the Communion, in spite of the general failure of the Churches to honor the Lambeth resolutions called for a listening process to appreciate the experiences of our gay & lesbian members. Gene Robinson has explicitly stated numerous times that he wants to be in communion Peter Akinola,… Read more »
Yikes! I don’t think I am suggesting that people suffer for the sake of unity! But that a separation ends one side of the argument or ends words…is this the idea behind separation? But I suppose if there are some who separate, what can be done if they are intent on it? I think the Spirit may offer another way forward we haven’t come to yet. I am hopeful. In the meantime I admire ++Canterbury’s statements (in the audio) regarding the recent meeting in Nigeria. He naturally upholds and affirms the dignity and respect due all people regardless of their… Read more »