Reflections on Lambeth Accepting that religions are transient would change the basis on which arguments are made between Christians as well as between all the adherents of the major faiths, because their central beliefs would be recognised as being human claims without divine authorisation. I make this claim in an article on my website: http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~andrewfurlong/whatcomesafterchristianity.html . All religions I maintain have a shelf life and are transient. I acknowledge that most adherents of the world’s main religions still believe in divine revelation or in God choosing people to be God’s representatives. Such beliefs developed within a pre-scientific worldview in which… Read more »
JCF
16 years ago
I have officially hit Lambeth Info-Glut…
YosemiteGreg
16 years ago
Lambeth conference: Archbishop blames liberals for church rift. Consecration of gay clergy must stop to end Anglican crisis, says Williams.
Dear ++Rowan, it’s time for you to stop denegrating LGBT Anglicans/Christians and others throughout the Communion and the world…I’ve been worried for you but you’ve dug yourself into a whole…now, you’re ministry is on equal footing with GAFCON destructionists…you’ve lost your loyal audience and I don’t even think you know it yet…too much spiritual blundering, puffed-up pretending and mind-blowing gaps of common sense THINKING from such a brilliant man.
Lord have mercy on all of us for the mess you’ve made as you take up the sword to EXCLUDE!
drdanfee
16 years ago
Those missing for whom Rowan holds such angst and such a prayerful heart are clearly not the LGCTBQ folks he has been so careful to exclude from media-exposed Anglican church life. I think Rowan still finds the typical Anglican closet to be the best tradition of all, though we must still wonder whether he has ever really understood how dark Anglican life is, in such a closeted milieu. Oh well. Now back to daily life, and the good must continue – work, witness, service, worship, and committed relationships that are trash talked as if nobody decent can imagine such a… Read more »
Terence Dear
16 years ago
Simon,
Is there any particular reason you have removed all reference and links to Bishop Roskam’s remarks last Wednesday and to the ensuing comments?
Also, are you aware that your search engine doesn’t work?
Terence
MRG
16 years ago
drdanfree: What does the C stand for? I’m almost afraid to ask. And how much longer can this already-ungainly alphabetism possibly grow? Back in the days when the G came before the L (why did they switch?) and before the trendy addition of Q, a friend of mine used to refer to GLBT people simply as “Gilberts.” An elegant solution, I rather think.
John
16 years ago
I must admit the second week has not been so good. But surely there are reasons for optimism: (1) the whole show is still on the road; (2) the ‘punitive mechanisms’ are going to be slow; (3) RW has certainly shown leadership – sometimes surprisingly frank; (4) TEC isn’t going to do it; (5) Nor, on their side, are conservatives of the Minns/Gafcon type; (6) Within the UK, the ABP of Wales has made it clear how he’l handle things; (7) Individual churches aren’t going to be bullied; (8) In Durham there are priests in civil partnerships and there’s nothing… Read more »
I have not yet linked to her own explanation of what happened, this is coming soon (there is a mound of items yet to come).
We know all about our Search engine not working. We hope this may be fixed when the software is next upgraded. Meanwhile Google searches on the TA URL will generally get you what you need.
drdanfee
16 years ago
Apologies to all for any typos. The acronym is LGBTQ .. and yes cumbersome meets generational efforts, often in high schools, community colleges, and four year colleges, to be fair and fair again. So L started to come before G, so that lesbians would not feel ahead of time that they always took back seat to gay men, and bisexual B got added mainly because we need to constantly remind ourselves that this matter of sexual orientation is not a categorical either/or but a continuum instead. Then T got added because transgender people felt invisible and irrelevant even though the… Read more »
Father Ron Smith
16 years ago
That’s what is so wonderful about standing around the altar at a community Eucharist. If one is there, it is assumed that one wants to be part of the action – part of the continuum of God’s unconditional love – in the Elements of the Mass. This is why our worship is more important than our words. The Word-made-flesh in Christ is always ready to forgive, to heal, to re-energise for the sake of the Good News – the Gospel, that Jesus commissioned to be brought to everyone. It is good to be constantly reminded, as dear Archbishop Desmond Tutu… Read more »
Ford Elms
16 years ago
“This is why our worship is more important than our words.” Continuing the Evangelical/Catholic comparison, I think this is another source of difference. Look at how Evangelicals who post here will occasionally “affirm” something, often when everything else they say contradicts that “affirmation”. Look at requests for “a clear statement that Jesus is Lord” as though the meaning of that is clearly understood by anyone else, and is actually the way one expresses that Lordship in one’s life. I read once of a dichotomy between “Word and Table” Christians and “Book and Pulpit” Christians. I am trying not to be… Read more »
Father Ron Smith
16 years ago
Yes, Ford; and this is why the Global South Primates who refused to sit at the Lord’s Table with the ‘Publicans and Sinners’ (the rest of their colleagues, who believe in the unity with one another that Christ gives – by his presence in the Eucharist) would not understand the offence their action has caused.
To absent one’s self from the Eucharist – under any pretext – especially of the prospect of defilement by one’s co-religionists – is nothing less than a scandal in the Anglican Catholic world. This is what marks out ‘Tent-Christianity’ from the orthodox and traditional Church.
Ford Elms
16 years ago
“To absent one’s self from the Eucharist – under any pretext – especially of the prospect of defilement by one’s co-religionists – is nothing less than a scandal in the Anglican Catholic world.” Indeed. I simply can’t imagine doing it. I read in Love’s Redeeming Work a piece by some divine of a bygone time, asking people how they can come to communion and not receive. He had an answer for every excuse, but it all boiled down to this: We are invited by God to take part in His bounty. We can have no excuse to refuse. I say… Read more »
Reflections on Lambeth Accepting that religions are transient would change the basis on which arguments are made between Christians as well as between all the adherents of the major faiths, because their central beliefs would be recognised as being human claims without divine authorisation. I make this claim in an article on my website: http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~andrewfurlong/whatcomesafterchristianity.html . All religions I maintain have a shelf life and are transient. I acknowledge that most adherents of the world’s main religions still believe in divine revelation or in God choosing people to be God’s representatives. Such beliefs developed within a pre-scientific worldview in which… Read more »
I have officially hit Lambeth Info-Glut…
Lambeth conference: Archbishop blames liberals for church rift. Consecration of gay clergy must stop to end Anglican crisis, says Williams.
The church doesn’t care about gays.
Dear ++Rowan, it’s time for you to stop denegrating LGBT Anglicans/Christians and others throughout the Communion and the world…I’ve been worried for you but you’ve dug yourself into a whole…now, you’re ministry is on equal footing with GAFCON destructionists…you’ve lost your loyal audience and I don’t even think you know it yet…too much spiritual blundering, puffed-up pretending and mind-blowing gaps of common sense THINKING from such a brilliant man.
Lord have mercy on all of us for the mess you’ve made as you take up the sword to EXCLUDE!
Those missing for whom Rowan holds such angst and such a prayerful heart are clearly not the LGCTBQ folks he has been so careful to exclude from media-exposed Anglican church life. I think Rowan still finds the typical Anglican closet to be the best tradition of all, though we must still wonder whether he has ever really understood how dark Anglican life is, in such a closeted milieu. Oh well. Now back to daily life, and the good must continue – work, witness, service, worship, and committed relationships that are trash talked as if nobody decent can imagine such a… Read more »
Simon,
Is there any particular reason you have removed all reference and links to Bishop Roskam’s remarks last Wednesday and to the ensuing comments?
Also, are you aware that your search engine doesn’t work?
Terence
drdanfree: What does the C stand for? I’m almost afraid to ask. And how much longer can this already-ungainly alphabetism possibly grow? Back in the days when the G came before the L (why did they switch?) and before the trendy addition of Q, a friend of mine used to refer to GLBT people simply as “Gilberts.” An elegant solution, I rather think.
I must admit the second week has not been so good. But surely there are reasons for optimism: (1) the whole show is still on the road; (2) the ‘punitive mechanisms’ are going to be slow; (3) RW has certainly shown leadership – sometimes surprisingly frank; (4) TEC isn’t going to do it; (5) Nor, on their side, are conservatives of the Minns/Gafcon type; (6) Within the UK, the ABP of Wales has made it clear how he’l handle things; (7) Individual churches aren’t going to be bullied; (8) In Durham there are priests in civil partnerships and there’s nothing… Read more »
Terence
The “Cathy Roskam story” is linked to, in three versions, from
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/003340.html
I have not yet linked to her own explanation of what happened, this is coming soon (there is a mound of items yet to come).
We know all about our Search engine not working. We hope this may be fixed when the software is next upgraded. Meanwhile Google searches on the TA URL will generally get you what you need.
Apologies to all for any typos. The acronym is LGBTQ .. and yes cumbersome meets generational efforts, often in high schools, community colleges, and four year colleges, to be fair and fair again. So L started to come before G, so that lesbians would not feel ahead of time that they always took back seat to gay men, and bisexual B got added mainly because we need to constantly remind ourselves that this matter of sexual orientation is not a categorical either/or but a continuum instead. Then T got added because transgender people felt invisible and irrelevant even though the… Read more »
That’s what is so wonderful about standing around the altar at a community Eucharist. If one is there, it is assumed that one wants to be part of the action – part of the continuum of God’s unconditional love – in the Elements of the Mass. This is why our worship is more important than our words. The Word-made-flesh in Christ is always ready to forgive, to heal, to re-energise for the sake of the Good News – the Gospel, that Jesus commissioned to be brought to everyone. It is good to be constantly reminded, as dear Archbishop Desmond Tutu… Read more »
“This is why our worship is more important than our words.” Continuing the Evangelical/Catholic comparison, I think this is another source of difference. Look at how Evangelicals who post here will occasionally “affirm” something, often when everything else they say contradicts that “affirmation”. Look at requests for “a clear statement that Jesus is Lord” as though the meaning of that is clearly understood by anyone else, and is actually the way one expresses that Lordship in one’s life. I read once of a dichotomy between “Word and Table” Christians and “Book and Pulpit” Christians. I am trying not to be… Read more »
Yes, Ford; and this is why the Global South Primates who refused to sit at the Lord’s Table with the ‘Publicans and Sinners’ (the rest of their colleagues, who believe in the unity with one another that Christ gives – by his presence in the Eucharist) would not understand the offence their action has caused.
To absent one’s self from the Eucharist – under any pretext – especially of the prospect of defilement by one’s co-religionists – is nothing less than a scandal in the Anglican Catholic world. This is what marks out ‘Tent-Christianity’ from the orthodox and traditional Church.
“To absent one’s self from the Eucharist – under any pretext – especially of the prospect of defilement by one’s co-religionists – is nothing less than a scandal in the Anglican Catholic world.” Indeed. I simply can’t imagine doing it. I read in Love’s Redeeming Work a piece by some divine of a bygone time, asking people how they can come to communion and not receive. He had an answer for every excuse, but it all boiled down to this: We are invited by God to take part in His bounty. We can have no excuse to refuse. I say… Read more »