Updated twice
James Meikle Guardian Ex-archbishop attacks judges over gay counselling ruling
Independent
Jerome Taylor Church’s call for religious judges is rejected by Court of Appeal and
Robert Verkaik Lord Carey’s proposal is a step back to medieval days and
Steve Clifford If Christians are marginalised, it is not just the fault of secular society
Steve Doughty Daily Mail Judge rules Christians have NO special rights as he throws out case of sex therapist who refused to work with gay couples
Telegraph
John Bingham Gary McFarlane: judge’s assault on ‘irrational’ religious freedom claims in sex therapist case and
Gary McFarlane: the counsellor whose case led to warnings of ‘civil unrest’ and
Michael Nazir-Ali The legal threat to our spiritual tradition
Andrew Brown Cif belief Carey slapped down by senior judge
Neil Addison What is Religious Discrimination ?
Heresy Corner Laying down the Laws
Philip Henson Cif belief Carey’s intervention backfires
And here is an older article by him , written before the judgment, which I failed to link to previously.
The church cannot claim ‘superior right’
Christian Institute Christian counsellor appeal turned down
Letter to The Times (Saturday edition) Christian courts
“a self-important and alarmist twit” is good enough for me.
“Lord Justice Law’s judgement on the Gary McFarlane case in the Court of Appeal – that legislation for the protection of views held purely on religious ground cannot be justified – has driven a coach and horses through the ancient association of the Christian faith with the constitutional and legal basis of British society – Michael Nazir-Ali – Another ex-prelate of the Church of England (besides Lord Carey) bemoaning the emancipation of British citizens from the ‘coach and horses’ ethic of past legal and religious attitudes of endemic homophobia which obtained formerly in both of those environments. It seems both… Read more »
“When Christians paint a portrait of persecution, not only do we diminish the real suffering fellow believers worldwide experience, but we force ourselves to the margins. If Christians are marginalised in the UK, we must take at least some of the blame.” – Steve Clifford, general director of the Evangelical Alliance (The Independent) –
Perhaps if Lord Carey and Bishop Nazir-Ali had taken the trouble to ‘indaba’ with their Evangelical Brethren in the Church of England, they might have saved the Church from this latest debacle. How long are we to ‘suffer’ the pathetic outbursts of these reluctant-to-let-go clerics?
Now Carey & Nazir-Ali have something on their own doorstep to hoot & holler about. Less time for interfering in other folks’ business. Excellent.
“For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.” Deuteronomy 10:17 ” ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly” Leviticus 19:15 “Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism”” Acts 10:34 All humans are God’s creations, all humans are entitled to justice and compassion, to with hold counselling and succour on the basis of sexuality is to refute… Read more »
“a self-important and alarmist twit” is good enough for me.
Posted by: Göran Koch-Swahne
Me too! Let´s hope Lord Carey keeps his ¨twitting¨ in the United Kingdom as his idea of being ¨special¨ as in Christian means the supporting of bigots and poachers in the United States who undermind the canons of TEC!
Can´t this man find something constructive to do in say Haiti?
“…their post-paternalistic power base has actually disappeared.” Thank you, Fr. Ron, for stating the reality of the situation so succinctly. Your words can also be applied to the current situation in the Vatican.
It is so detrimental to the proclamation of the Gospel that the Church continually has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the acceptance of new revelation. From Galileo to the present moment.
Steve Clifford of the Evangelical Alliance says ‘Because when Christians paint a portrait of persecution, not only do we diminish the very real suffering that our fellow believers across the world experience, but we force ourselves to the margins. If Christians are marginalised in the UK, then we have to take at least some of the blame.’
Very well said from a perhaps surprising source.
A true libertarian would surely back a system whereby compassionate therapy is offered to gay couples AND those who have faith reasons to withdraw may do so. As he was the only person sacked there were clearly plenty of staff available to gay couples….so why not reach a sensible compromise?
This is merely the swapping of one prejudice (against gays) for another (against orthodox Christians). No true liberal would desire a society like that. If we are too small minded to live alongside those with whom we disagree then we are only one step away from social breakdown
Fr Ed: I don’t think it is anything to do with that tired phrase “orthodox Christianity”, though. If Gary MacFarlane had a principled objection on the basis of “orthodox Christianity” he would surely have refused to work with unmarried straight couples, or remarried divorcees, as both groups would be incompatible with “orthodox Christianity.” If, however, he was happy counselling straight people living in sin but not gay ones, isn’t that merely irrational prejudice, to an “orthodox Christian” such as yourself?
Fr. Ed; so you’re still moaning about the perceived ‘injustice’ you are suffering? Just think of the generations of women who have suffered from being ‘silenced’ in the Church and the world by the real injustice of misogyny. If you find you have been ordained into the wrong Church, why not just move over – except, as I understand it, you will find zero tolerance of your pathetic complaining under the rule of Pope Benedict. He has enough problems of his own.
Actually, Ed Tomlinson, the “true libertarian” would say that the government has no business telling a private employer that it cannot enforce its nondiscrimination policy. That is what Lord Carey was hoping would happen, and that is what Lord Justice Laws refused to do.
The true libertarian would probably say that if the private employer wishes to adopt the accommodation that you suggest, then that’s fine too.
The facts are that in nearly all places local “compromises” have held together well since the regulations and other laws have come into force. The very few cases solicited to tilt at the law are in themselves quite sad, the individuals have sometimes misled their employers and fellow staff. They have rejected “compromises” and failed to win the support of their comrades. In the vast majority of other places this has not been so. My view is that these cases are themselves destabilising and more likely to turn “the trickle” Nazir Ali recognises them to be into a flood he… Read more »
And in the end, Mr McFarlane was happy to work on the joys of sex with unmarried couples …..How “orthodox” is that and how adaptable must this willingness to work with people who take a job on false pretenses be?
I wish we had hundreds, thousands! of justices here in the USA like Lord Justice Laws. The English ought to thank God or nature that the English system has judges like him. I have cousins who are Orthodox Jews. They are perfectly free to not eat pork or not wear garments of mixed fabrics, and the State may not compel them to do otherwise. They are free to persuade, through speech, others to do likewise. However, in a free society, they may not use the State (or the Crown) to compel others to follow their beliefs. They can’t compel Christians… Read more »
Humility and fairness have never been traits that belong to Carey. The fact that he is a “Lord” after having served as Archbishop only points to his inflated self-importance. It is alarming that this kind of man was the Archbishop of Canterbury. Ignorance and narrow mindedness are poor qualities for a man who once exerted such power over others. Carey really should leave the area of public discourse because he has become an embarrassment and a source of homophobia and misogyny. He really needs to retire to the country side and take a long rest.
Father Ron I think you need to lie down and get some help after that outburst. Please show me where I was moaning about injustice on myself? I was in no way affected by this ruling and am merely commenting that it seems a less than liberal answer. My point was that a truly liberal society would allow more than one viewpoint to mutually coincide. What we are getting in secular Britain is however a narrowing of what is deemed socially acceptable opinion which makes us all more sterile and less interesting. It also could lead to that paradox that… Read more »
Chris Smith writes – ‘Ignorance and narrow mindedness are poor qualities for a man who once exerted such power over others’. Carey was appointed by Mrs Thatcher over the heads of other more suitable candidates she didn’t like. He is another legacy of her malign influence over the country.
‘My point was that a truly liberal society would allow more than one viewpoint to mutually coincide. What we are getting in secular Britain is however a narrowing of what is deemed socially acceptable opinion which makes us all more sterile and less interesting.’ So we must tolerate in public discourse & policy racism, anti-semitism, sexism in order to be more liberal ? I just don’t get it. Liberalism is not about anything goes and any vile view that diminishes human flourishing will do. No way. People’s private hateful opinions are one thing, but once they are expressed in public,… Read more »
“I was neither making a point about homosexuality OR (sic) orthodoxy but giving a reflection about our society and the real nature of liberalism which ought to be generous, forgiving and broad lest it becomes the very thing it seeks to destroy” – Ed Tomlinson – Ed, you don’t need to wrap up your statement in any further obfuscation. We all know what your own ‘grief’ is really about: the fact that the Church of England – the Church into which you were ordained when women priests were canonically accepted as part of the system – is now about to… Read more »
Chris Smith writes – ‘Ignorance and narrow mindedness are poor qualities for a man who once exerted such power over others’. Carey was appointed by Mrs Thatcher over the heads of other more suitable candidates she didn’t like. He is another legacy of her malign influence over the country. Posted by: Richard Ashby on Saturday, 1 May 2010 at 9:32am BST Well said. It is the sad truth. For this reason was he known as ‘Thatcher’s revenge’ – getting even with the church for offering her an opposition which the offical Oppostion failed to do. The bishops were very effective… Read more »
Just a passing observation: It is precisely in those countries that have been perceived as liberal and open in terms of social mores that there are increasingly intolerant and right-wing political activists: Geert Wilders and The Danish People’s Party being examples: For e.g.: http://universitypost.dk/article/gays-and-lesbians-met-city-vote There are two ways to deal with this whole issue really. The first to is continue to maintain limits on ‘hate speech’, which is a reduction in the freedom of speech – something which most self-identified liberals here seem to want to have and to accept. You are simply replacing one hegemony with another. The other… Read more »