Trevor Timpson’s is far the most nuanced of these reports. Although I don’t generally esteem him, I am glad to see that Rod Thomas is still fighting for his integrity (on this issue) within the C of E and doing so on reasonable grounds and in reasonable terms; glad also to see that Simon Killwick (whom I do think to be estimable) still thinks that ‘a form of words’ might do the trick. So it seems to me that there remain serious Anglicans of different integrities who are fighting with might and main to stay together. I’m with them.
Bethan
12 years ago
“traditionalism” should not be confused with Christianity.
You don’t find it in Jesus’ teachings. People who don’t like change should not be allowed to use that as an excuse for discrimination.
Father Ron Smith
12 years ago
The Archbishop of Canterbury’s clever distinction between two words: ‘Delegation’ and ‘Derivation’, might just be the clue to a way forward on the legislation next July, which could allow for the Ordination of Women as Bishops in the Church. It could well be that a woman Bishop could agree to allow another (Male) Bishop into her diocese – to minister to those who would not accept her personal charism as a Bishop – by the simple process of ‘delegation’. This could indicate that the Male Bishop was exercising his own episcope – and not that of the Diocesan. The word… Read more »
Mark Bennet
12 years ago
Ron – my reading of the distinction is different from yours. I think the suggestion is that those who disagree that women can be bishops need have no concern about the role of bishops to whom women delegate authority – because although the authority to minister may be delegated, the identity of episcopal ministry is derived from the action of the church as a whole when it ordains a bishop – delegation does not pollute derivation, if you will. It is a way of saying that the existing legislation is (ought to be) sufficient for dissenters.
Father Ron Smith
12 years ago
Thanks for your comment, Mark. I thought that’s precisely what I was trying to convey in my own comment – that ‘delegation’ would not be a problem for the rigorists. However, it all seems a little bit casuistic to me. Anyway, I hope Women get their chance to exercise an unfettered ‘episcope’. Agape!
JCF
12 years ago
The (varying) coverage of this story rather reminds me of that scene in “Annie Hall”
{split screen}
Two therapists {separately, in unison}: “How often do you have sex?”
Him {on his side} : “Almost never! About 3 times a week”
Her {on her side}: “Constantly! About 3 times a week”
;-p
Laurence Roberts
12 years ago
Whatever it is called, what must not happen again, is the situation where PEVs used their ‘pastoral’ position to create cradles of disaffection and mysogeny, latterly preparing the ground for the laity and minsters in their areas to join another denomination; with secret negotiations with the Vatican. Three of the PEVs are now RC monsignors, with one heading up the Ordinriate in England. Andrew Burnham was breath-takingly clear in his blog etc about his policy and strategy to achieve this. The General Synod will not stand for this kind of thing again ! The behaviour of recent PEVs have made… Read more »
Trevor Timpson’s is far the most nuanced of these reports. Although I don’t generally esteem him, I am glad to see that Rod Thomas is still fighting for his integrity (on this issue) within the C of E and doing so on reasonable grounds and in reasonable terms; glad also to see that Simon Killwick (whom I do think to be estimable) still thinks that ‘a form of words’ might do the trick. So it seems to me that there remain serious Anglicans of different integrities who are fighting with might and main to stay together. I’m with them.
“traditionalism” should not be confused with Christianity.
You don’t find it in Jesus’ teachings. People who don’t like change should not be allowed to use that as an excuse for discrimination.
The Archbishop of Canterbury’s clever distinction between two words: ‘Delegation’ and ‘Derivation’, might just be the clue to a way forward on the legislation next July, which could allow for the Ordination of Women as Bishops in the Church. It could well be that a woman Bishop could agree to allow another (Male) Bishop into her diocese – to minister to those who would not accept her personal charism as a Bishop – by the simple process of ‘delegation’. This could indicate that the Male Bishop was exercising his own episcope – and not that of the Diocesan. The word… Read more »
Ron – my reading of the distinction is different from yours. I think the suggestion is that those who disagree that women can be bishops need have no concern about the role of bishops to whom women delegate authority – because although the authority to minister may be delegated, the identity of episcopal ministry is derived from the action of the church as a whole when it ordains a bishop – delegation does not pollute derivation, if you will. It is a way of saying that the existing legislation is (ought to be) sufficient for dissenters.
Thanks for your comment, Mark. I thought that’s precisely what I was trying to convey in my own comment – that ‘delegation’ would not be a problem for the rigorists. However, it all seems a little bit casuistic to me. Anyway, I hope Women get their chance to exercise an unfettered ‘episcope’. Agape!
The (varying) coverage of this story rather reminds me of that scene in “Annie Hall”
{split screen}
Two therapists {separately, in unison}: “How often do you have sex?”
Him {on his side} : “Almost never! About 3 times a week”
Her {on her side}: “Constantly! About 3 times a week”
;-p
Whatever it is called, what must not happen again, is the situation where PEVs used their ‘pastoral’ position to create cradles of disaffection and mysogeny, latterly preparing the ground for the laity and minsters in their areas to join another denomination; with secret negotiations with the Vatican. Three of the PEVs are now RC monsignors, with one heading up the Ordinriate in England. Andrew Burnham was breath-takingly clear in his blog etc about his policy and strategy to achieve this. The General Synod will not stand for this kind of thing again ! The behaviour of recent PEVs have made… Read more »