The Presiding Bishop of The Episcopal Church USA, Frank Griswold gave the Guardian an interview in London: US church leader edges away from gay bishops confrontation. The interview was with Stephen Bates. Lead para:
The leader of the US Episcopal church, which is in danger of being expelled from the worldwide Anglican communion for its election of an openly homosexual bishop, has warned parishioners of the diocese of California that they would widen the confrontation it they chose another gay bishop.
>>Aware that the crisis has been fuelled – and worsened – by some internet bloggers and the speed of communications
Does he mean TA? 😉 Seems a slightly random comment to me about what may or may not be exacerbating the situation.
I wish he would be more careful in what he says. The comment about it being ‘the evil one’ focusing the church on a particular manifestation of sexuality and taking our attention away from poverty, famine, etc., could easily sound like he’s saying that attention to justice issues for glbt prople in TEC is the work of the devil – something I suppose Bp. Duncan would agree with!
>>Does he mean TA?
No, I’m sure he does not mean TA. The reporting here has been thoughtful and sane. I’m sure he’s referring to blogs like Virtue Online and Titusonenine which have been inflammatory and insane. But in the United States, we have always highly prized our freedom of speech. So that’s the price we pay.
TA would be on their list of offending blogging sites. The issue is to do with public embarrassment and “keeping up appearances”, irregardless of the suffering of LGBTs. There is the continuing red herring that treatment of LGBTs should be “put aside” because there are more worthy causes, the same as mistreatment of women should also be put aside. The theme of the “evil one” is consistent with some bloggers commenting that those who advocate hospitality to LGBTs are prophets for Baal (refer this forum a few weeks earlier). (And as a personal comment, the greater sins will not be… Read more »
With all due respect, Simon, I don’t know that I would describe this article as “an interview.” It’s clear that Bates interviewed Bishop Griswold. However, the interest is less on what Bishop Griswold said than on Bates’ interpolation of how that might be heard in the current controversy. With that editorial remark out of the way, this is interesting. I am certain that as an American, and a self-styled Progressive, I hear this somewhat differently than Bates. I think I hear some grief. There are times when doing what we think is the right thing isn’t going to be convincing,… Read more »
This reporter really discredits himself by his own words. Here’s what the reporter says, with some text omitted to make the error plain: “The leader of the US Episcopal church … has warned parishioners of the diocese of California that they would widen the confrontation it they chose another gay bishop” by way of an interview in which he was “[s]peaking exclusively to the Guardian.” Sorry to disappoint the folks at the Guardian, but their newspaper is not widely read in the Diocese of California. If Presiding Bishop Griswold wanted to send us a message through the press, he probably… Read more »
Please rest assured, Bill, the “Thinking” Anglicans has indeed had its inflammatory moments. I agree about Virtue, he’s a fully-engulfed flame thrower. Just like TA, T1:9 can appear inflammatory, but it also has many very thoughtful discussions. There is currently a very solid discussion going on now about something Bp. Griswold said in his interview.
I think from talking to him that Presiding Bishop Frank had in mind different websites to this one. I expect you can guess which ones…..
Another thing: +Frank says that at our peril do we ignore famine, disease, poverty etc. in order to discuss sexuality. Too true. But we – TEC – are NOT ignoring such things. TEC and particularly the Diocese of Virginia and individual parishes in the diocese have been working hard in Sudan with the Diocese of Renk. We have a priest from our diocese more or less permanently stationed there. ERD – Episcopal Relief and Development – is busy working with victims of famine and natural disaster at home [Katrina etc.] and abroad – well – see their website. We –… Read more »
The crisis has been made worse *for the establishment* because they can no longer control the flow of information… Fewer and fewer people accept at face value what pBp Griswold says!
I’m surprised that Bill thinks that Kendall Harmon’s blog is less than thoughtful and sane.. it’s just not liberal Bill !
And I can think of plenty of liberal bloggers who post much more inflamatory hysteria than V-O-L !
Bill,
Titusonenine and virtue are in completely different categories. Dr. Kendall Harmon+ posts articles from other sources that evoke comments. These comments are closely moderated to allow debate and sharp discussion while at the same time preventing threads from becoming personal or insulting.
Please be careful to check the facts before making accusations
Sorry, I hadn’t seen San Franciscan’s comments when I posted before. I am sure that your local newspaper is read more widely in California than the Guardian, though we have a million hits a day on our website from the US alone and I have had several email messages in the last 24 hours from American correspondents who have seen the article, in California and elsewhere. And, of course, I am aware that it has appeared on US websites as well as this one. I was invited to interview Presiding Bishop Griswold when he came to London. The initiative was… Read more »
I am surprised really that not even San Franciscan (who does mention the correct number) complained to Steve about the error in the first sentence of the second paragraph: there are seven nominees, not six, for California.
http://episcopalbayarea.org/joomla/content/view/307/27/
Just take a cursory spin to those blogs. You will see a couple of things.
#1, The Episcopal Church is regularly called antiChristian, pagan, in league with Baal, and is said to be going to hell. Gays and lesbians are regularly condemned in harsh and derogatory terms. Specific priests, laity and bishops are attacked.
#2, A good number of the posters who post angrily at them, are not Episcopalians, and attack the Church.
san franciscan,
I don’t think it a fair observation to cite Stephen Bates for improperly quoting or in some way misconstruing Bishop Griswold’s words. He has a good track record.
In attempting to analyze the whys and wherefores of this story, don’t overlook the fact that Bishop Griswold was in London to meet with Archbishop Williams. I haven’t seen that bit of news anywhere else, yet it is important for Episcopalians to know that their presiding bishop is among the people that the ABC is meeting with as the Communion tries to find its way forward.
Sorry Simon. You are right on seven. Neither the presiding bishop nor myself could quite remember (which rather shows he has not been obsessing about California) and I am afraid I forgot to double check when writing the piece……..
There is a messenger – message problem with some posters to this blog. Attacking Kendall Harmon for providing a forum for the expression of the views and opinions of others says more about the ignorance of the poster than anything else. Kendall (and Simon) and a number of others provide an invaluable service to the Church. The heart of Kendall Harmon’s blog are not his own opinion pieces but a clipping service showcasing the work of others. Now the selection of articles, and the access to Kendall’s own work offered by his blog lays out his views … as do… Read more »
To Mr. Bates: I stand by my comments, to which I believe you are overreacting. I did not question whether you actually interviewed PB Griswold, nor whether he was talking about the Diocese of California, nor whether you quoted him accurately in your third paragraph. It also does not surprise me that he asked you for the interview. Whether intentional or not (by you or your editor), your lead paragraph does not merely imply but in fact directly asserts that PB Griswold has “warned parishioners of the diocese of California.” Of course he knew some Americans might read your article.… Read more »
Come on, san franciscan. Looking at my comment about the article, I mentioned that I thought it unfair to conclude stephen had been misconstrued. I don’t mention anything about anyone being idiotic. At any rate the more interesting question is, maybe, Bishop Grisowld’s intent. You seem to find in his interview, just a repeat that we continue to exercise caution when electing and consecrating bishops. This is a fair reading, because this is exactly what he says. Another fair inference given the climate, is that Bishop Griswold is politely and gently suggesting that the Diocese of California not elect a… Read more »
In some ways the election of a second openly gay bishop by California would be a further sign of discernment, if it actually happened. Like New Hampshire, the folks would be telling us that local thorough discernment processes override controversy and doctrinal disputes – with the level playing field being that Anglicans are actually not of a single mind on LGBTQ issues, contrary to typical conservative claims. No doubt such changes or elections would also quicken and sharpen the conservative realigment campaign that simply says, Conform, because nothing else is actually workable. The fundamentally messy and open-ended ways of democracy… Read more »
“The diocese needs to respect the sensibilities of the larger communion. It will note what is going on in the life of the church and make a careful and wise decision. It will then be up to the house of bishops to give or withhold their consent. Given what has happened over the last three years, I think there will be increased sensitivity.” Does this, or does this not, mean that the Diocese of California should behave any DIFFERENTLY in 2006, than the Diocese of New Hampshire did, in 2003 (that is, listen to who the ***HOLY SPIRIT**** is leading… Read more »