Perhaps escaping our present biology *and* fully embracing a Feminist/Queer/Transgender theology would do more to stop this than mere parenting advice. We may all have God-shaped holes to fill but we also have endocrine systems whose operations originated millions of years ago.
Nom de Plume
16 years ago
A very timely study. Reuters also reported this week that 44% of South African _Male_ students reported having been raped, most by older women, in a study of 127,000 school boys. See the story here: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL861760820080728
Phyllis
16 years ago
I read the above article. Frankly I find this pretty unbelievable. I suspect someone is putting someone on.
Erika Baker
16 years ago
With great hesitation I’m outing myself as completely uninformed, but can someone tell me how it is possible for women to rape boys? I always thought men’s sexual responses cannot be forced and performance cannot be faked.
I’m not disbelieving the reports, but I would like to understand them.
Nom de Plume
16 years ago
Erika, Rape can take many forms, and is not necessarily the violence that one immediately imagines. Coercion of sex using threats of punishments, or of bad grades or promises of good ones (assuming it’s the teacher who’s doing the abusing), or other abuses of power could be used to induce a boy to have sex against propriety and his will. I don’t know if it is possible to “force” a male sexual response, but it is certainly possible to encourage it, and frankly most teen-aged boys don’t need a lot of encouragement! And of course rape of a male by… Read more »
Martin Reynolds
16 years ago
Rape is when you SAY NO
Rape is when you are to young to SAY YES
Rape is when people abuse their influence and trust and you cannot SAY NO
Rape is when you are groomed and manipulated
JCF
16 years ago
Rape is a crime of POWER-OVER, not a crime of “passion”, Erika. It’s not necessary for either/any party to have a sexual *response*, strictly speaking, for a sexual *crime* to have occurred.
Phyllis
16 years ago
Not only that but we must assume these are weight lifter/sumo wrestling women who are committing these crimes. Must be some pretty large women there. Personally most women I know, myself included, couldn’t even rape a four-year-old (assuming we would want to!) Sorry, I stlil someone is putting someone on – and given the widespread violence against women, it ain’t funny
The Anglican Scotist
16 years ago
Erika,
There are three possibilities, inter alia.
(1) Statutory Rape–the boy in question may be too young to give genuine consent.
(2) the boy could have been penetrated by the woman–in a variety of ways–against his will.
(3)Compromised Consent: the boy could have been intoxicated or drugged, or consent could have been coerced by a woman in a superior position: threatening a job, a student’s future, the boy’s family or loved ones.
Ford Elms
16 years ago
“I always thought men’s sexual responses cannot be forced and performance cannot be faked.” Gotcha! We all want you to think that, it makes it harder for you to see when we’re faking it:-) Seriously, though we think of rape in male terms, Erika, just as we think of violence in male terms. One of the things we are now coming to realize is that women’s violence is of a very different nature, so much so that we haven’t even recognized a lot of it, stemming directly from the fact that women have been socialized to be powerless. Girl’s bullying… Read more »
john
16 years ago
Phyllis,
Nice to read you again in more congenial surroundings. Last encountered you on T19,
Best,
John Liberalis/Scholasticus.
Deacon Charlie Perrin
16 years ago
Erika
If an older woman has sex with an underage male it is rape by definition regardless of the willingness of the boy (and trust me I had a couple of young women teachers when I was in High School that I had fantasies about, but had I had sex with them they could have been prosecuted for statutory rape).
Treebeard
16 years ago
Search me Erica
Treebeard
16 years ago
Phyllis,
Nice to read you again in more congenial surroundings. Last encountered you on T19,
Best,
John Liberalis/Scholasticus.
Posted by: john on Wednesday, 30 July 2008
Yes, good to see you here, John. You contend well for the faith on T19 which must take a saint, I reckon …
Phyllis
16 years ago
Hello John Liberalis/Scholasticus. Yes, I gave up on the toxic environment of T19 about a year ago. Good to hear from you.
Interesting also since now and then I check in to see what is being posted, though I don’t post. I see, for example, that the well-thought of presentation by West on reading the Bible is nowhere to be seen on T19. A blinkered website.
Nom de Plume
16 years ago
Phyllis, I wonder why you persist in wanting this to be a hoax. Frankly, I hope it is, because that would imply that the suffering described is not real. But let’s for a moment assume that it is true. That implies that a very large number of boys, and doubtless an even larger number of girls, are subject to unwanted / coerced / violent sexual experiences. No matter how you paint it that is appalling. I am deeply concerned about your need to avoid this issue by imagining that it can only happen if the women involved are sumo wrestlers.… Read more »
Erika Baker
16 years ago
Thanks for all your explanations. Of course they make perfect sense.
Phyllis
16 years ago
Dear nom de plume
The report says that almost half of boys in South Africa are being raped by women. Sorry, but I repeat myself, this is absurd. Think about it. Close to half of boys in any population being raped by women is ridiculous. I try to imagine what “rape” by a woman must be like. Then I try to imagine that half of any population is being “raped”. The entire thing is absurd. Unless those are some sex-crazed women, and strong.
Ford Elms
16 years ago
“I try to imagine what “rape” by a woman must be like.”
Might I suggest, Phyllis, that you cease your Gnostic attempt to find within yourself the facts of female rape of males and instead do some research on the issue. I’m sure you’ll find many stories of how it happens, and you won’t have to keep imagining, you’ll actually have the stories from the victims themselves. You might want to start with the book to which I directed Erika, but that’ll be only a start.
Perhaps escaping our present biology *and* fully embracing a Feminist/Queer/Transgender theology would do more to stop this than mere parenting advice. We may all have God-shaped holes to fill but we also have endocrine systems whose operations originated millions of years ago.
A very timely study. Reuters also reported this week that 44% of South African _Male_ students reported having been raped, most by older women, in a study of 127,000 school boys. See the story here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL861760820080728
I read the above article. Frankly I find this pretty unbelievable. I suspect someone is putting someone on.
With great hesitation I’m outing myself as completely uninformed, but can someone tell me how it is possible for women to rape boys? I always thought men’s sexual responses cannot be forced and performance cannot be faked.
I’m not disbelieving the reports, but I would like to understand them.
Erika, Rape can take many forms, and is not necessarily the violence that one immediately imagines. Coercion of sex using threats of punishments, or of bad grades or promises of good ones (assuming it’s the teacher who’s doing the abusing), or other abuses of power could be used to induce a boy to have sex against propriety and his will. I don’t know if it is possible to “force” a male sexual response, but it is certainly possible to encourage it, and frankly most teen-aged boys don’t need a lot of encouragement! And of course rape of a male by… Read more »
Rape is when you SAY NO
Rape is when you are to young to SAY YES
Rape is when people abuse their influence and trust and you cannot SAY NO
Rape is when you are groomed and manipulated
Rape is a crime of POWER-OVER, not a crime of “passion”, Erika. It’s not necessary for either/any party to have a sexual *response*, strictly speaking, for a sexual *crime* to have occurred.
Not only that but we must assume these are weight lifter/sumo wrestling women who are committing these crimes. Must be some pretty large women there. Personally most women I know, myself included, couldn’t even rape a four-year-old (assuming we would want to!) Sorry, I stlil someone is putting someone on – and given the widespread violence against women, it ain’t funny
Erika,
There are three possibilities, inter alia.
(1) Statutory Rape–the boy in question may be too young to give genuine consent.
(2) the boy could have been penetrated by the woman–in a variety of ways–against his will.
(3)Compromised Consent: the boy could have been intoxicated or drugged, or consent could have been coerced by a woman in a superior position: threatening a job, a student’s future, the boy’s family or loved ones.
“I always thought men’s sexual responses cannot be forced and performance cannot be faked.” Gotcha! We all want you to think that, it makes it harder for you to see when we’re faking it:-) Seriously, though we think of rape in male terms, Erika, just as we think of violence in male terms. One of the things we are now coming to realize is that women’s violence is of a very different nature, so much so that we haven’t even recognized a lot of it, stemming directly from the fact that women have been socialized to be powerless. Girl’s bullying… Read more »
Phyllis,
Nice to read you again in more congenial surroundings. Last encountered you on T19,
Best,
John Liberalis/Scholasticus.
Erika
If an older woman has sex with an underage male it is rape by definition regardless of the willingness of the boy (and trust me I had a couple of young women teachers when I was in High School that I had fantasies about, but had I had sex with them they could have been prosecuted for statutory rape).
Search me Erica
Phyllis,
Nice to read you again in more congenial surroundings. Last encountered you on T19,
Best,
John Liberalis/Scholasticus.
Posted by: john on Wednesday, 30 July 2008
Yes, good to see you here, John. You contend well for the faith on T19 which must take a saint, I reckon …
Hello John Liberalis/Scholasticus. Yes, I gave up on the toxic environment of T19 about a year ago. Good to hear from you.
Interesting also since now and then I check in to see what is being posted, though I don’t post. I see, for example, that the well-thought of presentation by West on reading the Bible is nowhere to be seen on T19. A blinkered website.
Phyllis, I wonder why you persist in wanting this to be a hoax. Frankly, I hope it is, because that would imply that the suffering described is not real. But let’s for a moment assume that it is true. That implies that a very large number of boys, and doubtless an even larger number of girls, are subject to unwanted / coerced / violent sexual experiences. No matter how you paint it that is appalling. I am deeply concerned about your need to avoid this issue by imagining that it can only happen if the women involved are sumo wrestlers.… Read more »
Thanks for all your explanations. Of course they make perfect sense.
Dear nom de plume
The report says that almost half of boys in South Africa are being raped by women. Sorry, but I repeat myself, this is absurd. Think about it. Close to half of boys in any population being raped by women is ridiculous. I try to imagine what “rape” by a woman must be like. Then I try to imagine that half of any population is being “raped”. The entire thing is absurd. Unless those are some sex-crazed women, and strong.
“I try to imagine what “rape” by a woman must be like.”
Might I suggest, Phyllis, that you cease your Gnostic attempt to find within yourself the facts of female rape of males and instead do some research on the issue. I’m sure you’ll find many stories of how it happens, and you won’t have to keep imagining, you’ll actually have the stories from the victims themselves. You might want to start with the book to which I directed Erika, but that’ll be only a start.