One of the few good side-effects of Lockdown is that it gives an ideal opportunity – as churches restore the common cup – to halt the onward march of the monstrous regiment of dippers. Some teaching might be needed. ‘Dippers may not be barred from heaven; but why take the chance?’ should do the trick.
I had stamped out dipping in my parish before Covid. A simple explanation of why it is so vile and unhygienic did the trick. All the stuff about hand hygiene in the last two years should have helped reinforce that.
In St John’s Gospel we learn that Jesus dipped. It was for Judas but nonetheless it is presented as though it wasn’t especially noteworthy that He dipped so we can assume Jesus did it regularly. If Jesus dipped, what’s your objection?
The one who dipped with Our Lord was the one who betrayed him…
Pat ONeill
2 years ago
Interesting.Dipping was first instituted in my diocese and parish (Pennsylvania) many years ago during flu season, in order to reduce spreading infection. Surely all those lips touching the cup are no less infectious than hands?
Assuming that: 1) People wash their hands. 2) People’s fingers don’t touch the wine. 3) No part of the wine-soaked wafer falls into the chalice. I’d think dipping would be much more hygienic If I’m not mistaken, in Eastern Orthodox.(Greek, Russian, Syrian, Coptic, etc.) churches, the priest mixes the consecrated bread and wine into a holy gruel and then spoons it out to the congregants. If so, I don’t know what the previous practice was, but I would hope that in the Age of COVID, the various bishops, archbishops, or metropolitans have issued guidelines (pastoral letters? edicts?) that the administering… Read more »
Interestingly, in the church I attend most of the time, they have found what is probably the best medium. There are two chalices, one for drinking from, one for intinction. If you opt for intinction, the priest intincts for you and drops the wafer into your hands. No skin to skin contact and only one person’s hands anywhere near the wine.
If the chalice bearer does his/her job properly, the likelihood of fingers touching wine is very small….and I’ve never seen a piece of the host fall into the wine. When I do it (at least), no more than an eighth of an inch of the wafer gets wine on it and it’s not in the wine for more than a second.
I trust you use thick hosts – I have seen people intinct a thin host and then have it collapse in a soggy heap on the floor. It hardly strikes me as a reverent administration of the sacrament.
Indeed, in my own Anglican church, in the Diocese of Birmingham, we have been doing just that – two sets of cups, one for wine with alcohol, the other without. In the same way we have ‘normal’ bread, and gluten free bread, to be taken according to the individual’s needs. Dead simple. I used to know a vicar who claimed the genuine alcohol in the chalice killed any infection left on the rim. Don’t know how true that was…….
peterpi - Peter Gross
2 years ago
Laudable Practice‘s use of the word “Gloriana”, a contemporary popular epithet for Queen Elizabeth I, prompted me to pull up the theme music to the TV series Victoria. When the American network Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) aired the first episode of the first season, I was so struck, so completely absorbed by the music that I was sure it must have been a Gregorian or medieval-era chant. I was totally surprised to see it was composed for the series. Hearing it still makes me feel like I’m in a cathedral at high (or whatever the acceptable term is these days)… Read more »
I very much agree with you, Peter. Wonderful music, that lifts the hearts upwards into/towards mystery. In the context of the article, it also reminds me that there may be mystery and divine purpose in monarchy, and that here in Britain we live in an interwoven heritage of divine grace, monarchy, parliament and holy church. These interwoven threads may be ways God has chosen to operate in the history and fate of our nation. The Elizabethan Settlement has much to say to those clerics who want puritanism of doctrine within the Anglican Communion and Church of England today. It allowed… Read more »
I had a similar experience when I first saw the Canadian queer cinema classic “Lilies” some years back. The soundtrack included all the movements of a mass that sounded to me like it must surely be an early polyphonic setting from the era of Machaut, say. But it too was an original composition, by Mychael Danna who later won an Oscar for the score of the film adaptation of Life of Pi.
One of the few good side-effects of Lockdown is that it gives an ideal opportunity – as churches restore the common cup – to halt the onward march of the monstrous regiment of dippers. Some teaching might be needed. ‘Dippers may not be barred from heaven; but why take the chance?’ should do the trick.
I had stamped out dipping in my parish before Covid. A simple explanation of why it is so vile and unhygienic did the trick. All the stuff about hand hygiene in the last two years should have helped reinforce that.
In St John’s Gospel we learn that Jesus dipped. It was for Judas but nonetheless it is presented as though it wasn’t especially noteworthy that He dipped so we can assume Jesus did it regularly. If Jesus dipped, what’s your objection?
The one who dipped with Our Lord was the one who betrayed him…
Interesting.Dipping was first instituted in my diocese and parish (Pennsylvania) many years ago during flu season, in order to reduce spreading infection. Surely all those lips touching the cup are no less infectious than hands?
Assuming that: 1) People wash their hands. 2) People’s fingers don’t touch the wine. 3) No part of the wine-soaked wafer falls into the chalice. I’d think dipping would be much more hygienic If I’m not mistaken, in Eastern Orthodox.(Greek, Russian, Syrian, Coptic, etc.) churches, the priest mixes the consecrated bread and wine into a holy gruel and then spoons it out to the congregants. If so, I don’t know what the previous practice was, but I would hope that in the Age of COVID, the various bishops, archbishops, or metropolitans have issued guidelines (pastoral letters? edicts?) that the administering… Read more »
Interestingly, in the church I attend most of the time, they have found what is probably the best medium. There are two chalices, one for drinking from, one for intinction. If you opt for intinction, the priest intincts for you and drops the wafer into your hands. No skin to skin contact and only one person’s hands anywhere near the wine.
And what does the person receiving the intincted host do about what remains on their wet hands?
If the chalice bearer does his/her job properly, the likelihood of fingers touching wine is very small….and I’ve never seen a piece of the host fall into the wine. When I do it (at least), no more than an eighth of an inch of the wafer gets wine on it and it’s not in the wine for more than a second.
I trust you use thick hosts – I have seen people intinct a thin host and then have it collapse in a soggy heap on the floor. It hardly strikes me as a reverent administration of the sacrament.
Never seen that happen in over two decades.
Hands bad, lips good. Let’s have the kiss of peace instead of this handshaking nonsense.
I remind you that there’s a reason mononucleosis is known, at least on this side of the pond, as “the kissing disease.”
Of course – and I know it’s not permitted in Anglicanism – you could join us Nonconformists and use individual wee cuppies ….
Actually, over here in TEC’s diocese of Pennsylvania, we are doing just that.
Indeed, in my own Anglican church, in the Diocese of Birmingham, we have been doing just that – two sets of cups, one for wine with alcohol, the other without. In the same way we have ‘normal’ bread, and gluten free bread, to be taken according to the individual’s needs. Dead simple. I used to know a vicar who claimed the genuine alcohol in the chalice killed any infection left on the rim. Don’t know how true that was…….
Laudable Practice‘s use of the word “Gloriana”, a contemporary popular epithet for Queen Elizabeth I, prompted me to pull up the theme music to the TV series Victoria. When the American network Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) aired the first episode of the first season, I was so struck, so completely absorbed by the music that I was sure it must have been a Gregorian or medieval-era chant. I was totally surprised to see it was composed for the series. Hearing it still makes me feel like I’m in a cathedral at high (or whatever the acceptable term is these days)… Read more »
I very much agree with you, Peter. Wonderful music, that lifts the hearts upwards into/towards mystery. In the context of the article, it also reminds me that there may be mystery and divine purpose in monarchy, and that here in Britain we live in an interwoven heritage of divine grace, monarchy, parliament and holy church. These interwoven threads may be ways God has chosen to operate in the history and fate of our nation. The Elizabethan Settlement has much to say to those clerics who want puritanism of doctrine within the Anglican Communion and Church of England today. It allowed… Read more »
I had a similar experience when I first saw the Canadian queer cinema classic “Lilies” some years back. The soundtrack included all the movements of a mass that sounded to me like it must surely be an early polyphonic setting from the era of Machaut, say. But it too was an original composition, by Mychael Danna who later won an Oscar for the score of the film adaptation of Life of Pi.