If Anglican Futures need what is in effect a separate province, then I suggest they establish one. The Church of England has plenty of empty church buildings and so can afford to be generous. I think this issue goes far beyond the question of single sex sexual relationships. The Church is the body of Christ and God is unconditional love and welcome. The imposition of a first century view of sexual morality on twenty first century England makes no sense at all. It is for God to judge not us. We most certainly do not have the right to decide… Read more »
I would argue that it’s not a first century view they’re advocating for, more a mid 20th century view. The terms of debate on the conservative side would be as unfamiliar to the apostles as those on the affirming side.
David – As I read this and knowing Phil Ashey of old (who I am guessing had a hand in this article) – encouraging the formation of a separate ‘Anglican’ province is what he is proposing. He is lamenting that Canon Vaughn Roberts and CEEC have not prepared to join an ACNA/GSFA/GAFCON communion and are committed to remaining in the CofE in a way that is almost certainly impossible to deliver through the HoB, synod and definitely not through parliament. This article says – threaten to leave and be prepared to leave. It then says leaving is a good thing.… Read more »
Last edited 13 days ago by Philip Groves
John Davies
13 days ago
Regarding Jon Price’s article, there is a lot of comfort in the familiar, be it hymns, litany or church environment. I think a great many of us can affirm that from life’s experiences. They’re part of the ‘sure foundation’ which give form and structure to the rock of Christ on which we stand. Thankfully, that particular verse about the gated castle is tacitly omitted nowadays. There are some pertinent, gently scathing remarks about it in ‘Lark Rise to Candleford’ incidentally, which imply pretty much what Jon was saying. It reflects the attitudes of the time. The old children’s hymns weren’t… Read more »
T Pott
13 days ago
The Anglican Futures article has a video entitled Justin Welby’s rejection of Church of England teaching on sex with Vaughan Roberts. The title could have been better worded to avoid the double entendre.
J C Fisher
13 days ago
The cost of the split in the USA was undoubtedly “massive emotionally”, and it may have been so “spiritually” but “missionally” it has only been “disastrous” for the heterodox.
I don’t really know exactly who “Anglican Futures” are, but from reading the posting, am I supposed to conclude that I, lifelong faithful Episcopalian, am a “heterodox” living in a “disaster”? [Because that couldn’t be farther from the Truth!]
Life is full of ambiguity when some people demand certainty. And they want a Church which confirms their certainty.
In my opinion, some people use “heterodox” as an epithet against those who disagree with them, because God is on their side.
No, indeed. But it suits the AF ideology and rhetoric to have clear boundaries; TEC bad, ACNA/GAFCON good. It saves on thinking, and on that tricky bit about loving your neighbour as yourself when they aren’t like you. I don’t like or approve of the position of my Alliance-promoting diocesan bishop, but he is still my bishop. However, I can’t see him or the Alliance making any headway – under the current ecclesial settlement, making a church within a church on the basis of being anti-LGBT really is a non-starter, and in that I agree with the AF purists. I… Read more »
They massage their figures regularly, because it is crucial to their threats that they can claim x percent of Church of England people approve of their views.
As I believe I have argued elsewhere, some % of those who have left active participation in the CofE because of homo-/transphobia ought to be added to the numbers of the LGBTQ-affirming churches! It it totally unfair to the latter group, that they are counted as (putatively) smaller/decreasing, because the former Alliance group have been so “successful” in getting CofE members to leave the church entirely!
If Anglican Futures need what is in effect a separate province, then I suggest they establish one. The Church of England has plenty of empty church buildings and so can afford to be generous. I think this issue goes far beyond the question of single sex sexual relationships. The Church is the body of Christ and God is unconditional love and welcome. The imposition of a first century view of sexual morality on twenty first century England makes no sense at all. It is for God to judge not us. We most certainly do not have the right to decide… Read more »
I would argue that it’s not a first century view they’re advocating for, more a mid 20th century view. The terms of debate on the conservative side would be as unfamiliar to the apostles as those on the affirming side.
And that would apply to genetic female equality then naturally (plus trans’d of course)? Priesthood speaking.
David – As I read this and knowing Phil Ashey of old (who I am guessing had a hand in this article) – encouraging the formation of a separate ‘Anglican’ province is what he is proposing. He is lamenting that Canon Vaughn Roberts and CEEC have not prepared to join an ACNA/GSFA/GAFCON communion and are committed to remaining in the CofE in a way that is almost certainly impossible to deliver through the HoB, synod and definitely not through parliament. This article says – threaten to leave and be prepared to leave. It then says leaving is a good thing.… Read more »
Regarding Jon Price’s article, there is a lot of comfort in the familiar, be it hymns, litany or church environment. I think a great many of us can affirm that from life’s experiences. They’re part of the ‘sure foundation’ which give form and structure to the rock of Christ on which we stand. Thankfully, that particular verse about the gated castle is tacitly omitted nowadays. There are some pertinent, gently scathing remarks about it in ‘Lark Rise to Candleford’ incidentally, which imply pretty much what Jon was saying. It reflects the attitudes of the time. The old children’s hymns weren’t… Read more »
The Anglican Futures article has a video entitled Justin Welby’s rejection of Church of England teaching on sex with Vaughan Roberts. The title could have been better worded to avoid the double entendre.
I don’t really know exactly who “Anglican Futures” are, but from reading the posting, am I supposed to conclude that I, lifelong faithful Episcopalian, am a “heterodox” living in a “disaster”? [Because that couldn’t be farther from the Truth!]
Life is full of ambiguity when some people demand certainty. And they want a Church which confirms their certainty.
In my opinion, some people use “heterodox” as an epithet against those who disagree with them, because God is on their side.
No, indeed. But it suits the AF ideology and rhetoric to have clear boundaries; TEC bad, ACNA/GAFCON good. It saves on thinking, and on that tricky bit about loving your neighbour as yourself when they aren’t like you. I don’t like or approve of the position of my Alliance-promoting diocesan bishop, but he is still my bishop. However, I can’t see him or the Alliance making any headway – under the current ecclesial settlement, making a church within a church on the basis of being anti-LGBT really is a non-starter, and in that I agree with the AF purists. I… Read more »
As I believe I have argued elsewhere, some % of those who have left active participation in the CofE because of homo-/transphobia ought to be added to the numbers of the LGBTQ-affirming churches! It it totally unfair to the latter group, that they are counted as (putatively) smaller/decreasing, because the former Alliance group have been so “successful” in getting CofE members to leave the church entirely!
So Affirming churches are growing. That would be good news, except that they aren’t.