‘Beatings’ does not do justice to the extreme physical violence that Smyth inflicted on his victims. Combined with the brain-washing psychological control he achieved over them it was nothing short of torture. The CofE may trumpet the continuing extension of its safeguarding training, but it is only a procedural matter of jumping through hoops, it does nothing to change how badly those at the top deal with both victims & those falsely accused. Indeed, to spend such huge amounts of money on officials & lawyers while totally failing both victims & accused, while at the same time ever more lowering… Read more »
Safeguarding training sounds like a good idea but I wonder if it has actually saved a single victim from abuse ? But of course nobody knows because the effectiveness of the process isn’t monitored. When I undertook basic training as a member of our Church Council, I was incredulous that there was absolutely nothing about empowering children to speak up. If you are an 11 year old girl being abused by your father doesn’t the Church have a responsibility to help? In practice of course not because the church wouldn’t be legally liable and that is what this is really… Read more »
Fr Dean
3 days ago
Bishop Conway’s silence in response to Graham’s pleas is deafening. Another bishop clinging on by his fingertips in the face of the victims pain. Great men used to offer their resignations straight away in these circumstances, but these are not great men.
It does seem that Justin Welby has, to some extent, taken a bullet for Stephen Conway. Perhaps I am being unfair. However, Christopher Lowson was suspended for a long period for what transpired was a supposedly ‘minor’ safeguarding lapse. That suspension effectively amounted to deprivation, as Lowson resigned his see not long after he returned to post. I wonder what Lowson thinks about Conway’s refusal to resign over what some might construe as being a rather more consequential failure. I should add that Conway has been the chief sponsor of the Lincoln Time to Change Together scheme, which is to… Read more »
I agree that Bishop Conway does appear to be the Dr Beeching of the CofE. He left Ely before Ely: 2025 reached its denouement. Cambridge remained relatively unscathed whilst ministry in the Fens paid a heavy price. There have been savage cutbacks in ministry in Scunthorpe and its surrounding villages. There are severe job losses on the horizon at the town’s steelworks as the old blast furnaces are decommissioned just as the diocese retrenches in the town. There’ll be nothing pretty about Bishop Conway’s legacy in either Ely or Lincoln. Graham, Keith Makin and Private Eye have detailed his safeguarding… Read more »
“I agree that Bishop Conway does appear to be the Dr Beeching of the CofE” Hardly. Beeching was the adult brought in when the British Transport Board had finished making a total disaster of the railways, via the medium of the Modernisation Plan. The Modernisation Plan gave the railways a vast amount of money and almost as important, the time to put things right. Instead, they decided that all was well and what they needed to do was spend the money on running a pre-war railway. Instead, they spent the money like Richard Pryor in Brewster’s Millions, the objective being… Read more »
Round of applause. Beeching is one of the most unfairly maligned figures in post war British political history, and his report is actually a model of what government reports should be aiming for.
Btw, Great Central – though he was vindicated there IMO by the complete collapse of *all* the freight traffic that paid for it on a day to day basis. Closing the GC was the right decision at the time. But agree if the CofE had a Dr Beeching it might be a good thing.
Forecasters can only hope to get things right 50% of the time at best, which probably applies as much as to church closures as it does to Beeching. The trend in transport is now towards improving local accessibility as large urban centres become congested and working from home and online shopping become the norm. So the question is what happens when churches in large urban areas become full, which is the challenge that successful centrally located Resource Churches now face. Do they plant into existing parish churches in the surrounding area or somewhere new, with lower church maintenance costs? If… Read more »
Also, if we are to leave just the profitable parts of the enterprise, I can vouch – having probably seen more of the Church at worship at a local level than almost anyone (and possibly more than anyone) – that there will only be a few hundred units left across the whole country. Perhaps the abandonment of vast areas, as in Scotland, is a ‘price worth paying’ for ‘profit’. Of course, the Kirk’s Radical Action Plan will prove – and is proving – to be an abysmal failure, not least pastorally, but the General Trustees will at least have sold… Read more »
Perhaps. But my own complaint was one of several which didn’t progress while Lowson was in office, and which began to move as soon as he was suspended.
I’ve gone all modern in my usage, and usually follow The Times in referring to people by their surnames once their title and/or Christian name have been used in the conversation.
In any case, why should I be polite about the bishop who apparently delayed progress on my complaint for a year or so?
John Smyth liked boys to bleed and ++Welby didn’t do enough to stop him. How crass of you to describe his survivors as baying for the Archbishop’s blood.
What was Welby supposed to do to stop him? I too did absolutely nothing to stop John Smyth, and for the same reasons: I knew nothing about it and had no power over him.
The Makin report concludes that it was highly likely that Smyth continued his abuse until his death in 2018, five years after Welby was informed about Smyth in his role as Archbishop of Canterbury.
A very serious allegation which should be supported by some factual evidence. Without it, “highly likely” would not meet the ‘balance of probabilities’ test.
What position of power? By the time Welby was told some of the details, Smyth was a layman in a foreign country who no longer worshipped at an Anglican church. The Archbishop of Canterbury has no more power in such a situation than you or I do, or the current pretender to the throne of France. Various Church bodies reported Smyth to five different police forces in this country, none of which did anything until C4 blew the story open. I suspect that if C4 had gone to the police with all they knew and proposed arresting Smyth on one… Read more »
What position of power? By the time Welby was told some of the details, Smyth was a layman in a foreign country who no longer worshipped at an Anglican church. The Archbishop of Canterbury has no more power in such a situation than you or I do Yes, he does. He has the backing of, indeed speaks for, a very large organisation with substantial assets and could have publically named Smyth, coûte que coûte. People would listen to him and he would be well-insulated from any consequences. At the most extreme end, Welby could have taken out a full page… Read more »
That at least is the first practicable answer I have seen. Some reports on the Blackburn case did say that Welby suggested blowing the whole story open in the press. I can’t imagine him ringing up a journalist directly. There are good reasons not to be on such terms with any hack while you’re in office. But he could have summoned people to a briefing or press conference and done it that way. Against this, two points. First, perhaps most important, I don’t know which of the “various reports then extant” Welby, or anyone else outside the Titus Trust and… Read more »
“Secondly, this would have cut off any chance of bringing Smyth to trial and justice. He’d never have set foot in England again.” Yes, you’re right: he wouldn’t voluntarily have come back to the UK. But even had he been in Zennor rather than Zimbabwe, the chances of a criminal prosecution being brought, and then succeeding, were close to zero anyway. I’m not for a second accusing you of this, but I suspect that “we can’t do X, as otherwise the prosecution can’t happen”, when it isn’t going to happen anyway, is a tempting argument for people who are perfectly… Read more »
Or, indeed, Stephen Conway? Was he supposed to fly over to Africa, grab Smyth and march him back to the UK to face justice? At the time Conway was informed, Smyth was outside his jurisdiction as Bishop, and the jurisdiction of the UK police. I have been promoted to go back to the post here on 18 November, with two of (I assume) your blog posts, where there seems to be no agreement on what was supposed to have happened in this situation. Safeguarding needs to be much more of a just culture. There are going to be failures, both… Read more »
I wonder whether some people have given a single thought to the chronology. Archbishop Welby was ordained deacon in 1992, priest in 1993, consecrated bishop in 2011 and installed as Archbishop of Canterbury in 2013, thus newly in office in the very year to which so much attention is being given. John Smyth had left England in the 1980s – I have a note that he moved to Zimbabwe in August 1984, making occasional returns to England to appear as advocate in court. The Coltart report of 1997 deals fully with the Zimbabwe period. I concede that i have radically… Read more »
The other question is what exactly Welby knew in 2013. Did he read a copy of the Makin report? Or was it some general information about beatings? What exactly did some victims say at that point? Without rereading Makin, I’m not sure. Yes, he knew something, but what?
I acknowledge that ++ Justin could have done more e.g. telephone the Chief Constable of Hampshire and ask him to ensure the case was properly investigated by the police. I also acknowledge that I am making this observation with the benefit of hindsight. When ++ Justin took office in 2013 the immediate pressing issues were the equal marriage legislation (which he opposed in the Lords, to little effect) and women bishops. There was doubtless a host of other matters vying for his attention. He was told that the Smyth issue was being dealt with and he had been reported to… Read more »
To me the ”Graham’ and Rouch pieces bookend the same issue. Graham understandably wants “to know the truth” and CDMs. Those two wishes, however, are in tension: anyone potentially facing a CDM should have a right to silence and a presumption of innocence. Those rights can clearly stand in the way of getting to the truth, which is where I see Rouch engaged. Notwithstanding that presumption of innocence, we can’t have the Church of England run by people who have invoked that right to silence or who have de-facto relied upon it. There ‘Graham’ is right. +Welby should have come… Read more »
Fr Dexter Bracey
3 days ago
I’m curious about Martyn Percy’s claim that “…there are hardly any – indeed, no – examples of the much-vaunted new models of the church making a net contribution to their diocese for the investments they have received.” In this diocese, we are told that the resource church is ‘a net contributor to the diocese’, which I have, perhaps cynically, assumed to mean that it is still being funded by grants from beyond the diocese. But where can one find any clear facts about these matters?
Thanks Dexter. I also picked up that claim, and whilst I’m sympathetic to Martyn Percy’s general perspective, I did wonder where the data is for this claim. The economist (and sceptic) in me would really appreciate independent and peer-reviewed analysis of church growth funding in the Church of England, but I’ve never really discovered enough reliable data for this. Those who fund the projects (of course) have a vested interest in proving their success; those who disapprove on ideological grounds will regard them as failures; but genuinely open-minded research is hard to find. Martyn occasionally comments on Thinking Anglicans, perhaps… Read more »
We mustn’t forget that Resource Churches haven’t been the only initiative in recent years. Although their number seems to have fallen considerably (I may be wrong in this) there are/were the various “Fresh Expressions” of church which, it seems to me, can never be viable unless they form part of an existing church’s outreach work. That, however, was not the rationale behind them when they first started – at least, as I was given to understand things.
Quite. I know of two “Fresh Expressions” in this diocese which have folded since the pandemic, even as the diocese trumpets the claim that it seeking to establish 150 new worshipping communities.
“Fresh” Expressions seems to me like old milk that has gone off. Surely HTB plants are passed their “sell -by” dates. Their ‘liturgical’ expression is as old as Billy Graham rallies, Salvation Army meetings or Westboro Baptist Church. Its time for the CofE to ditch these daft attempts to get down with the kids, and start promoting the beauty of holiness.
Thanks. So-called ‘Resource Churches’ are by definition solvent and possess significant staffing, resources etc. We have no ‘fresh expressions’ – entirely and wholly new congregations – that are self-sustaining and net-contributors to their sponsoring diocese. To do so, they’d need to stump up a stipend, pension, on costs and housing to break even, which most dioceses agree is circa £60k. I’m not aware of any research that shows a ‘fresh expression’ generating that kind of income, let alone anything on top to pay back into the diocese as some quota contribution. Ergo, it would seem that the much-vaunted ‘fresh expressions’… Read more »
There was a Visitation of St. Michael-le-Belfrey in 1991, conducted by the Bishop of Selby, the Archdeacon of York, and Dr Tina Baxter. St. Mike’s was then a well-established and fairly prosperous church with a large congregation and membership – but the report concluded that the church was a net receiver from (not net giver to) the diocese. PCC members were indignant, as they perceived themselves as resourcing other churches, but the figures proved the point. Of course, St Mike’s did also resource other churches in areas like mission teams, the arts, and music. But with 3 full-time clergy, plus… Read more »
St M-le-B is now known as the Belfrey. Perhaps that would suit you better?
Or perhaps you disapprove of any church where worship doesn’t take place in the style which you yourself prefer, and which attracts the kind of people you aren’t naturally at home with?
That makes quite a bunch of presuppositions!!
Oddly enough I feel at home across a wide breadth of worship styles and currently work in a team led by a Baptist.
I cannot think of any ‘kind of people’ that I am naturally not at home with.
However I wince at dumbing down and strap line churchy slogans and feel that St Michael, whoever he is, deserves a degree of dignity and quite like bishops to cope with gravitas and not play ‘one of the lads’ populism as they tacitly exercise authority.
I am sorry I clearly irritated you.
They were questions, not presuppositions. But yes, your comment that ‘St Mike’s says it all’ did seem to me to argue some presuppositions on your part, especially linked to ‘Bishop Mickey Mouse’ I apologise for misreading you.
In my experience, when people abbreviate the name of the church’s patron, they’re often expressing an affection for the church. And that can be a good thing. As for bishops, after studiously addressing them by their titles for 40 years, I now think deference is part of the problem with the C of E.
I know a nearby church , of St Michael, but called in recent years St Mike’s. It’s an affectionate name.
Maybe I should be miffed as the key person who decided the name in the first place but I’m not. It’s much loved by the congregation.
I felt them to be rhetorical questions. None or ne?
Not deference so much as manners.
I wonder if the folk in York have a deep affection for the saint or just like the church community.
Not a bad thing per se but all a bit sickly.
St Philip and St James in Oxford was widely and affectionately referred to as Pip and Jim, without accusations of dumbing down or disrespect. But that’s Oxbridge and not evangelical, so that’s different, isn’t it….
The sad thing is that Strategic Development Funding often goes to the large, often middle-class churches who have people skilled at the hoop-jumping task of bid writing. In one of my former work roles, I used to do it to get European Social Fund money. You have to know all the tricks and the buttons / keywords to press.
That is, unfortunately, a near-universal truth: that funding goes to those best able to access it, and those best able to access it are rarely those in most need. It’s possible to draw up ways of allocating funding that are mindful of this, but those methods are in turn gamed once they are known. The “solutions” are often universal funding, which is largely unaffordable: cf. Child Benefit and Winter Fuel Allowance. It’s made particularly bad the moment the funding body wants “evidence” of the success of whatever it was the money was for. That process — set objectives, ensure they… Read more »
The Charity Commission website has the accounts of any PCC with an income above £100k. As you are in Coventry Diocese, you could look St Mark’s Coventry which describes itself as a city centre resource church: https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/en/charity-search/-/charity-details/5135078/accounts-and-annual-returns St Mark’s, which is an HTB plant, had an annual income in 2023 of £317,341 and contributed £63,000 of that to the diocese as parish share. They also paid £113,093 in staff costs, presumably covering everyone on their Team page (https://www.stmarkscoventry.org/team) who receives a wage other than the vicar. My diocese estimates that a full time stipendiary minister costs around £55k (stipend, housing,… Read more »
Thanks John T. I’m not familiar with St Mark’s Coventry, but it might be a good example to look at. My guess is their parish share of £63K for 2023 is probably 100% of the cost of one stipendiary (my brief search indicates an official diocesan figure of £58K for the year 2018, and it has presumably gone up since). But the accounts also indicated they received a grant of £34K from Coventry Diocese for that year – which suggests they were a net loss on Diocese funds for that year. Previous years also show considerable grants from the Diocese… Read more »
And I noticed 10000 house churches as a supposed inspiration in the particulars for a clergy job recently. In the same particulars it said the Diocese would assist in closing some of the churches there. The culture that has grown up of planting churches seems potty to me. And wholly unrealistic too.
Across all Church of England parishes, about 31% of expenditure was on “parish share”. There is, of course, a lot of variation hidden beneath this aggregate figure.
As with all of our other work, suggestions for other analysis that would be useful are very welcome.
Pat ONeill
3 days ago
“Instead, I had, in December, a bizarre meeting with an empty shell of a man. There was no human connection. The most extraordinary thing is that, in a two-hour meeting, Justin did not use my name once. And at the end (I admit, late for another meeting), he just walked out. No handshake. No looking me in the eyes, clasping my hands. No final apology. So, for me, no closure. What a missed opportunity. For him, not me.” The most astonishing thing to me is the absence of an offer to pray together. In 72 years, nearly 40 of them… Read more »
I imagine that ++Welby modelled his approach on that of the masters at Eton. Though as you say dreadful behaviour for someone in Orders. Sadly the man is tin eared as was evidenced by his resignation speech in the House of Lords. The extent of the problem for the CofE manifested in that several of his colleagues (notably the Bishop of Manchester) were chortling away at his lame attempt to justify himself. Only the Bishop of London had her head in her hands.
Is it really surprising that ‘an empty shell of a man’ has no prayer in him to offer? Graham is describing a man barely functioning personally, pastoral and spiritually. I am distressed for ‘Graham’ who did not receive what he most sought and needed. I am also distressed by the description of a church leader so clearly close to the edge.
That was my reaction too. ‘Graham’ describes someone who is worn down and worn out and himself in need of support. While I suspect he resents being forced to it, the picture painted is that retirement was a blessing for ++Justin too.
I had some compassion for Justin in the immediate aftermath of his resignation announcement and to some extent still do, though it was reduced a bit when I read in Private Eye Ian Hislop’s withering description of encountering him the following day at a drinks reception at the British Museum. As others have said, he has a tin ear.
David, we have ‘Graham’s’ description of how he experienced this meeting but I wonder what ++Justin made of it. What did he think he was being asked to do, how genuinely did he strive to do it, and to what extent did he think he had succeeded or failed? ‘Graham’ believes that the needs he brought to the encounter were straightforward and should have been easy of fulfilment. ‘All I want is honesty, humble, human honesty.’ I know enough about ++Justin to know that he would have done what lay within his character to offer both honesty and humility but… Read more »
Jane, As someone not ordained and coming from outside the inner circles of the C of E I’m really struggling with your comments. You have always been very clear that you did not think Archbishop Welby should resign, and still see things from that angle. If as you say it is the sober truth that wounds of abuse inflicted during someone’s formative years cannot be healed this side of heaven the only logical conclusion has to be that the Archbishops’ Council et al have been right in not offering them redress all this time, and that death is their only… Read more »
Susanna, for accuracy, I haven’t said that I did not think Archbishop Welby should resign. The only comment I’ve made about that on this blog was soon after it happened when I wrote, ‘I think it was right that Welby resigned when he did. The situation had developed in a way that made it necessary.’ My comment here is simply that his resignation doesn’t seem to have resolved anything for survivors. Again for accuracy, I haven’t said that for survivors ‘death is their only way out’ therefore the Archbishops’ Council have been right in not offering them redress. I do… Read more »
As.a generality, most of the apologies I have heard from senior clerics, both to survivors and LGBT+ Christians, have been expressed in the first person plural. Unsurprisingly they have not typically been followed by any actions consistent with that ‘apology’. What we don’t hear is “I did X and Y wrong. I am sorry. I cannot put it right but I accept responsibility and this is what I am going to change/do.” I haven’t heard a single member of the Archbishops Council for instance apologise for their personal role in the disastrous way the ISB was disbanded. I would also… Read more »
Amen. Few people understand clinical depression, then again how could they? I certainly could not have done Abp Justin’s job, in those circumstances. I mean he could have reported this disaster earlier and he should indeed have resigned, but stop the blame at ‘he didn’t shake my hand, didn’t feel like praying with me or looking me in the eye.’ The measure you mete out and all that.
An acquaintance of mine also knows Mr Welby personally, and told me, well before the resignation issues, that he was ‘a broken man’. He had the misfortune of holding office at a time when the institution gives every sign of falling apart and, despite all his efforts, there is nothing he could do to prevent it. Maybe Froghole can correct me if necessary, but I can’t think of any of his recent predecessors – say over my lifetime of 71 years – who have had to cope with a similar series of disasters. I’m also depressive; I can understand something… Read more »
Just reading the Papers online I see that on Monday his final day as Archbishop of Canterbury he is to celebrate a Eucharist in Lambeth Palace Chapel and finally he will make his last appearance as Archbishop of Canterbury at Evensong also in Lambeth Palace Chapel, where at the end of the Service he will formally lay down his Crozier (probably the Canterbury Diocesan Crozier) on the Altar of the Chapel as a sign of formally demitting office as Archbishop, the I expect on the quiet he will be given an unofficial informal Farewell with a small presentation by his… Read more »
I am sorry to read of your difficulties, and hope that you are able to establish a workable equilibrium, for your own peace of mind. Going back to 1954, I suspect the only comparable period which comes to mind was 1986-91, which was marred by three major events: (i) the personal attack upon Runcie by Bennett in the 1986 Crockford’s preface; (ii) the collapse in the financial standing of the Church Commissioners in the wake of the property slump after 1988; and (iii) the increasingly intense internal warfare between the supporters and opponents of female ordination, which threatened to break… Read more »
Froghole, could I question one statement in your otherwise very helpful summary. You state “There was also a pervasive sense of malaise throughout much of the Church and it was, of course, the period during which some of the most egregious abuse occurred: indeed, that abuse may well have occurred in part because of that atmosphere of disintegration and disillusionment.” It is a common discourse in conservative circles that such widespread sexual abuse only started in about the 1960s, and was triggered by the collapse in sexual morals in society at that time. The unstated assumption here is that before… Read more »
I agree with you completely. The abuse occurred well before, and well after, that turbulent period. However – and this is mere speculation – there was a sense of both national and local decay, or incipient rot, which may have amplified impunity in certain quarters as the 1980s progressed. That was certainly my own impression at the time, especially in certain specific areas, such as East Sussex, which was then local to me. The second half of the 1980s seemed to be a nadir period for the Church, although in political terms it saw the emergence of certain tropes and… Read more »
Thanks for the clarification, which I agree with. As with many things to do with sexuality, and especially homosexuality, one must always be aware of the difference between what actually happened in private, and what was perceived to be happening, or was recorded as happening, in public debate. I think it’s hard to argue that things did happen. One of my favourite bits of evidence is in a book of courtly gossip by Walter Mapp – De Nugis Curialium – a secular clerk from the Gloucestershire/Herefordshire area in the late 12th Century. “So also, two white abbots were conversing about… Read more »
Thank you very much indeed for the link to the OMT edition of 1983. When Monty James produced his edition (1914), based in part on the editio princeps undertaken by Thomas Wright for the Camden series (1850) he included almost no commentary and scant information about Map himself. This was pretty par for the course for James, and it led to some criticism in contemporary reviews. In his 1980 biography of James, the late Dick Pfaff noted that James produced a vast oeuvre, much of which was undertaken at high speed, but he often did so at the cost of… Read more »
You are right about the translators. Whilst I am grateful that these translations exist it is a great pity that these fascinating texts are still only available in English translations dating from 60, or even 100 years ago. Sadly they would have been translated according to the world view of that day, which risks missing out some of the nuance that might have been in a more modern translation. When the texts says “I have heard before now of a monk throwing himself upon a boy, but always, when the monk got up, the boy promptly got up too.” the… Read more »
Not surprising at all, and I have been concerned for Welby for several years. But, if Welby had agreed to meet with Graham in 2013, possibly he would have been in a better state to offer what Graham needed, and Graham in a better state to receive it. The delay in meeting Smyth survivors is inexcusable.
Agreed. This makes Graham’s sober & rather sorrowful account of the meeting all the more compelling. Unsurprisingly his anger at what was done to him often shines through in what he writes, but this was not the case here.
Exactly. As Graham writes ‘this whole damned saga has wrecked my life’
An earlier meeting might well have meant considerably less of it had been wrecked
David Runcorn
2 days ago
Rouch offers one of the most perceptive comments on the Archbishop’s resignation Dr. Alec Ryrie observes that ‘the archbishop’s decision was actually a testament to the progress Welby had made in creating new protections. “The fact that he has changed the culture sufficiently that it’s reached the point that he himself could be forced to step down is, in a bitterly ironic way, a kind of achievement,” I think he is right and I while acknowledging much more still needs to be done, I am grateful.
A little statistical interjection, if I may (I am the person who has the job of for collecting, checking, collating, analysing, and publishing Church of England attendance statistics): Abigail Freemann Rouch writes: “Welby has been criticized for failing to reverse the decline in church attendance (though it has almost returned to pre-pandemic levels)” Martyn Percy writes: “the number of paid-up members of the church has effectively fallen off the cliff edge—and there is no sign that this decline is temporary.” The figures are available in the latest Statistics for Mission publication here: https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/statisticsformission2023.pdf The precise number depends on which measure… Read more »
Thanks for that dose of reality, Ken Eames. “In October 2023 in-person attendance was 19% below what it was in 2019″. That’s certainly not a return to pre-pandemic levels. Not quite falling off a cliff, either, but the trend is very clear and surely calls for a massive re-direction of thinking? Heads out of the sand. Is the overwhelming focus on safeguarding driving everything else out of consideration? To someone looking in from the outside it does seem a bit like the only show in town.
Could I ask what ‘other’ issues should be taking up the space? What sort of ‘massive redirection of thinking’? The continuing shambles of safeguarding practices in the CofE may well make victims and others think it should be the only show in town. There was a comment elsewhere on this blog about a nativity play which had prompted the remark that the shepherds were probably ‘rehabilitated paedophiles’. I’m not surprised. The cynicism prompted by safeguarding failures in the CofE is there. I’m sure you aren’t suggesting that the institution must take priority. But I doubt whether ‘move on, that’s quite… Read more »
“restoring attendance” is not what I was thinking of. That’s not going to happen – and prioritising that goal at the expense of so much else has not been a spectacular success, has it? And neither am I saying “that’s quite enough of that”. Martyn Percy raises structural issues about the way the Church works (or doesn’t) as an institution. Those questions, about accountability and transparency, go to the heart of the matter. There is indeed a “continual shambles” in safeguarding and the question of why that is the case, after all these years, surely requires looking at governance more… Read more »
‘Graham’ and other victims of abuse who are struggling to deal with the trauma and injustice from which they suffer, might be helped to find a way through by reading Bishop Rose Hudson-Wilkin’s autobiography, “The Girl From Montego Bay”.
Yesterday Archbishop Justin retired in tragic and sad circumstances. Whatever our view of his ministry and how he has faced the challenges of the C of E and the Anglican Communion let’s pray both for him and his family. And also for all who continue to live with the effects of the abuse they suffered and the church’s failures in response. And also for the staff at Lambeth and in Canterbury.
Yvette Cooper made this statement in response to the Rotherham abuse scandal. One of the many factors in that long-running matter is the failure of the police to act, something which is also a factor in the Smyth case. How helpful is the duty to report something if the relevant authorities do not respond?
The fact that the police may not sufficiently follow up on a report of abuse, in no way should be used as an excuse not to report. I’m sure you did not mean it in that way.
What the new policies do is to ‘oil the wheels’ for reporting. At a meeting to discuss whether to report allegations of abuse, it just takes one person to say ‘we will be criminally liable (or whatever the new law will state) if we don’t’ for any discussion to end. This simply codifies what is already good safeguarding practice.
How helpful is the duty to report something if the relevant authorities do not respond? I think that is the irony of most ‘safeguarding’ – or rather, I mean there is a problem that it is trying to fix 2 problems while advocates often only think of one of these: Protect the vulnerable Protect the institution – – (but in a way that means we are not liable, not in a way that ignores any abuse of the vulnerable).I think it would be helpful if there was a bit of honesty that some of our policies (making reporting more ‘clear’… Read more »
Yes, there are several aspects, and box ticking does not of itself help victims. But it surely put to bed any idea that safeguarding can be kept within the church? If it has to be reported, then it has to be reported to some external authority? This is what the Jay report on CoE safeguarding recommended, if memory serves me right, and has been discussed at length on other threads on TA. ‘Just get on with it’ comes to mind. No need for any more debate. I think that if these proposed legal changes had been in place in 2013,… Read more »
I’m not sure what you’re responding to – maybe not me. Yes we should report to the police. Why do we need another agency to report to as well as them; what is that going to achieve in the context of objective-1; the vulnerable? Reporting to people within the church is vital if you want to for-example bar someone from coming into the building. Reporting to a body who can investigate and prosecute any crimes is vital – if that’s not the police then it needs to be a police-like-body, and it’s for the government to come up with (maybe… Read more »
Oh dear- we have marched up to the top of this particular hill and down again at least once before on TA threads since the Makin report came out. It is also not just the C of E which has dragged its feet about statutory reporting- the previous government (or its powerful friends and donors) didn’t fancy it either . So they also chose to ignore a very expensive report by Professor Jay – and in a mysterious way Elon Musk’s current political meddling may have helped the cause. I haven’t read the ICSA report for a while, but if… Read more »
‘Beatings’ does not do justice to the extreme physical violence that Smyth inflicted on his victims. Combined with the brain-washing psychological control he achieved over them it was nothing short of torture. The CofE may trumpet the continuing extension of its safeguarding training, but it is only a procedural matter of jumping through hoops, it does nothing to change how badly those at the top deal with both victims & those falsely accused. Indeed, to spend such huge amounts of money on officials & lawyers while totally failing both victims & accused, while at the same time ever more lowering… Read more »
Safeguarding training sounds like a good idea but I wonder if it has actually saved a single victim from abuse ? But of course nobody knows because the effectiveness of the process isn’t monitored. When I undertook basic training as a member of our Church Council, I was incredulous that there was absolutely nothing about empowering children to speak up. If you are an 11 year old girl being abused by your father doesn’t the Church have a responsibility to help? In practice of course not because the church wouldn’t be legally liable and that is what this is really… Read more »
Bishop Conway’s silence in response to Graham’s pleas is deafening. Another bishop clinging on by his fingertips in the face of the victims pain. Great men used to offer their resignations straight away in these circumstances, but these are not great men.
It does seem that Justin Welby has, to some extent, taken a bullet for Stephen Conway. Perhaps I am being unfair. However, Christopher Lowson was suspended for a long period for what transpired was a supposedly ‘minor’ safeguarding lapse. That suspension effectively amounted to deprivation, as Lowson resigned his see not long after he returned to post. I wonder what Lowson thinks about Conway’s refusal to resign over what some might construe as being a rather more consequential failure. I should add that Conway has been the chief sponsor of the Lincoln Time to Change Together scheme, which is to… Read more »
I agree that Bishop Conway does appear to be the Dr Beeching of the CofE. He left Ely before Ely: 2025 reached its denouement. Cambridge remained relatively unscathed whilst ministry in the Fens paid a heavy price. There have been savage cutbacks in ministry in Scunthorpe and its surrounding villages. There are severe job losses on the horizon at the town’s steelworks as the old blast furnaces are decommissioned just as the diocese retrenches in the town. There’ll be nothing pretty about Bishop Conway’s legacy in either Ely or Lincoln. Graham, Keith Makin and Private Eye have detailed his safeguarding… Read more »
“I agree that Bishop Conway does appear to be the Dr Beeching of the CofE” Hardly. Beeching was the adult brought in when the British Transport Board had finished making a total disaster of the railways, via the medium of the Modernisation Plan. The Modernisation Plan gave the railways a vast amount of money and almost as important, the time to put things right. Instead, they decided that all was well and what they needed to do was spend the money on running a pre-war railway. Instead, they spent the money like Richard Pryor in Brewster’s Millions, the objective being… Read more »
Round of applause. Beeching is one of the most unfairly maligned figures in post war British political history, and his report is actually a model of what government reports should be aiming for.
Btw, Great Central – though he was vindicated there IMO by the complete collapse of *all* the freight traffic that paid for it on a day to day basis. Closing the GC was the right decision at the time. But agree if the CofE had a Dr Beeching it might be a good thing.
Forecasters can only hope to get things right 50% of the time at best, which probably applies as much as to church closures as it does to Beeching. The trend in transport is now towards improving local accessibility as large urban centres become congested and working from home and online shopping become the norm. So the question is what happens when churches in large urban areas become full, which is the challenge that successful centrally located Resource Churches now face. Do they plant into existing parish churches in the surrounding area or somewhere new, with lower church maintenance costs? If… Read more »
Be careful what you wish for. Dr Beeching’s spiritual offspring are already at work in the Kirk.
Also, if we are to leave just the profitable parts of the enterprise, I can vouch – having probably seen more of the Church at worship at a local level than almost anyone (and possibly more than anyone) – that there will only be a few hundred units left across the whole country. Perhaps the abandonment of vast areas, as in Scotland, is a ‘price worth paying’ for ‘profit’. Of course, the Kirk’s Radical Action Plan will prove – and is proving – to be an abysmal failure, not least pastorally, but the General Trustees will at least have sold… Read more »
Yes, you are being unfair.
As the treatment of Chris Lowson was shocking, brutal and unjustified.
Perhaps. But my own complaint was one of several which didn’t progress while Lowson was in office, and which began to move as soon as he was suspended.
Bishop Lowson might be more polite!
I’ve gone all modern in my usage, and usually follow The Times in referring to people by their surnames once their title and/or Christian name have been used in the conversation.
In any case, why should I be polite about the bishop who apparently delayed progress on my complaint for a year or so?
Because he is a delightful human being who suffered much at the hands of the bludgeoning CofE Inc.
It’s hardly news, but Bishop Conway made this statement on the Lincoln Diocese website on 12th November 2024:
https://www.lincoln.anglican.org/news/a-further-statement-from-the-bishop-of-lincoln-regarding-the-makin-report-12-11-24/
But apparently no reply to the correspondence from one of Smyth’s victims.
Great men used to offer their resignation when public opinion was fair and balanced. I’m afraid its now just a mob, constantly baying for blood.
John Smyth liked boys to bleed and ++Welby didn’t do enough to stop him. How crass of you to describe his survivors as baying for the Archbishop’s blood.
What was Welby supposed to do to stop him? I too did absolutely nothing to stop John Smyth, and for the same reasons: I knew nothing about it and had no power over him.
The Makin report concludes that it was highly likely that Smyth continued his abuse until his death in 2018, five years after Welby was informed about Smyth in his role as Archbishop of Canterbury.
He knew and was in a position of power.
A very serious allegation which should be supported by some factual evidence. Without it, “highly likely” would not meet the ‘balance of probabilities’ test.
What position of power? By the time Welby was told some of the details, Smyth was a layman in a foreign country who no longer worshipped at an Anglican church. The Archbishop of Canterbury has no more power in such a situation than you or I do, or the current pretender to the throne of France. Various Church bodies reported Smyth to five different police forces in this country, none of which did anything until C4 blew the story open. I suspect that if C4 had gone to the police with all they knew and proposed arresting Smyth on one… Read more »
What position of power? By the time Welby was told some of the details, Smyth was a layman in a foreign country who no longer worshipped at an Anglican church. The Archbishop of Canterbury has no more power in such a situation than you or I do Yes, he does. He has the backing of, indeed speaks for, a very large organisation with substantial assets and could have publically named Smyth, coûte que coûte. People would listen to him and he would be well-insulated from any consequences. At the most extreme end, Welby could have taken out a full page… Read more »
That at least is the first practicable answer I have seen. Some reports on the Blackburn case did say that Welby suggested blowing the whole story open in the press. I can’t imagine him ringing up a journalist directly. There are good reasons not to be on such terms with any hack while you’re in office. But he could have summoned people to a briefing or press conference and done it that way. Against this, two points. First, perhaps most important, I don’t know which of the “various reports then extant” Welby, or anyone else outside the Titus Trust and… Read more »
“Secondly, this would have cut off any chance of bringing Smyth to trial and justice. He’d never have set foot in England again.” Yes, you’re right: he wouldn’t voluntarily have come back to the UK. But even had he been in Zennor rather than Zimbabwe, the chances of a criminal prosecution being brought, and then succeeding, were close to zero anyway. I’m not for a second accusing you of this, but I suspect that “we can’t do X, as otherwise the prosecution can’t happen”, when it isn’t going to happen anyway, is a tempting argument for people who are perfectly… Read more »
Or, indeed, Stephen Conway? Was he supposed to fly over to Africa, grab Smyth and march him back to the UK to face justice? At the time Conway was informed, Smyth was outside his jurisdiction as Bishop, and the jurisdiction of the UK police. I have been promoted to go back to the post here on 18 November, with two of (I assume) your blog posts, where there seems to be no agreement on what was supposed to have happened in this situation. Safeguarding needs to be much more of a just culture. There are going to be failures, both… Read more »
I wonder whether some people have given a single thought to the chronology. Archbishop Welby was ordained deacon in 1992, priest in 1993, consecrated bishop in 2011 and installed as Archbishop of Canterbury in 2013, thus newly in office in the very year to which so much attention is being given. John Smyth had left England in the 1980s – I have a note that he moved to Zimbabwe in August 1984, making occasional returns to England to appear as advocate in court. The Coltart report of 1997 deals fully with the Zimbabwe period. I concede that i have radically… Read more »
The other question is what exactly Welby knew in 2013. Did he read a copy of the Makin report? Or was it some general information about beatings? What exactly did some victims say at that point? Without rereading Makin, I’m not sure. Yes, he knew something, but what?
Sorry, I mean the Ruston report, not the Makin report, in my first sentence.
He had not seen the Ruston report and neither had his staff.
I acknowledge that ++ Justin could have done more e.g. telephone the Chief Constable of Hampshire and ask him to ensure the case was properly investigated by the police. I also acknowledge that I am making this observation with the benefit of hindsight. When ++ Justin took office in 2013 the immediate pressing issues were the equal marriage legislation (which he opposed in the Lords, to little effect) and women bishops. There was doubtless a host of other matters vying for his attention. He was told that the Smyth issue was being dealt with and he had been reported to… Read more »
The originators of the petition for the Archbishop to go, Robert Thomson, Marcus Green and Ian Paul, were not survivors of Smyth as far as I’m aware.
Good to read the Commonweal piece and to hear how others view the present state of the CofE.
Dr Percy is now spreading himself between Macao, Hong Kong and Switzerland. I wish him well.
The Very Rev Dr Percy has always lectured and preached throughout the world. This is not ‘news’! Nevertheless a thoughtful article
He is a massive loss to the Church of England.
To me the ”Graham’ and Rouch pieces bookend the same issue. Graham understandably wants “to know the truth” and CDMs. Those two wishes, however, are in tension: anyone potentially facing a CDM should have a right to silence and a presumption of innocence. Those rights can clearly stand in the way of getting to the truth, which is where I see Rouch engaged. Notwithstanding that presumption of innocence, we can’t have the Church of England run by people who have invoked that right to silence or who have de-facto relied upon it. There ‘Graham’ is right. +Welby should have come… Read more »
I’m curious about Martyn Percy’s claim that “…there are hardly any – indeed, no – examples of the much-vaunted new models of the church making a net contribution to their diocese for the investments they have received.” In this diocese, we are told that the resource church is ‘a net contributor to the diocese’, which I have, perhaps cynically, assumed to mean that it is still being funded by grants from beyond the diocese. But where can one find any clear facts about these matters?
Thanks Dexter. I also picked up that claim, and whilst I’m sympathetic to Martyn Percy’s general perspective, I did wonder where the data is for this claim. The economist (and sceptic) in me would really appreciate independent and peer-reviewed analysis of church growth funding in the Church of England, but I’ve never really discovered enough reliable data for this. Those who fund the projects (of course) have a vested interest in proving their success; those who disapprove on ideological grounds will regard them as failures; but genuinely open-minded research is hard to find. Martyn occasionally comments on Thinking Anglicans, perhaps… Read more »
We mustn’t forget that Resource Churches haven’t been the only initiative in recent years. Although their number seems to have fallen considerably (I may be wrong in this) there are/were the various “Fresh Expressions” of church which, it seems to me, can never be viable unless they form part of an existing church’s outreach work. That, however, was not the rationale behind them when they first started – at least, as I was given to understand things.
Quite. I know of two “Fresh Expressions” in this diocese which have folded since the pandemic, even as the diocese trumpets the claim that it seeking to establish 150 new worshipping communities.
“Fresh” Expressions seems to me like old milk that has gone off. Surely HTB plants are passed their “sell -by” dates. Their ‘liturgical’ expression is as old as Billy Graham rallies, Salvation Army meetings or Westboro Baptist Church. Its time for the CofE to ditch these daft attempts to get down with the kids, and start promoting the beauty of holiness.
Thanks. So-called ‘Resource Churches’ are by definition solvent and possess significant staffing, resources etc. We have no ‘fresh expressions’ – entirely and wholly new congregations – that are self-sustaining and net-contributors to their sponsoring diocese. To do so, they’d need to stump up a stipend, pension, on costs and housing to break even, which most dioceses agree is circa £60k. I’m not aware of any research that shows a ‘fresh expression’ generating that kind of income, let alone anything on top to pay back into the diocese as some quota contribution. Ergo, it would seem that the much-vaunted ‘fresh expressions’… Read more »
There was a Visitation of St. Michael-le-Belfrey in 1991, conducted by the Bishop of Selby, the Archdeacon of York, and Dr Tina Baxter. St. Mike’s was then a well-established and fairly prosperous church with a large congregation and membership – but the report concluded that the church was a net receiver from (not net giver to) the diocese. PCC members were indignant, as they perceived themselves as resourcing other churches, but the figures proved the point. Of course, St Mike’s did also resource other churches in areas like mission teams, the arts, and music. But with 3 full-time clergy, plus… Read more »
St Mike’s!!….says it all!
When are we going to have Bishop Micky Mouse?
St M-le-B is now known as the Belfrey. Perhaps that would suit you better?
Or perhaps you disapprove of any church where worship doesn’t take place in the style which you yourself prefer, and which attracts the kind of people you aren’t naturally at home with?
That makes quite a bunch of presuppositions!!
Oddly enough I feel at home across a wide breadth of worship styles and currently work in a team led by a Baptist.
I cannot think of any ‘kind of people’ that I am naturally not at home with.
However I wince at dumbing down and strap line churchy slogans and feel that St Michael, whoever he is, deserves a degree of dignity and quite like bishops to cope with gravitas and not play ‘one of the lads’ populism as they tacitly exercise authority.
I am sorry I clearly irritated you.
They were questions, not presuppositions. But yes, your comment that ‘St Mike’s says it all’ did seem to me to argue some presuppositions on your part, especially linked to ‘Bishop Mickey Mouse’ I apologise for misreading you.
In my experience, when people abbreviate the name of the church’s patron, they’re often expressing an affection for the church. And that can be a good thing. As for bishops, after studiously addressing them by their titles for 40 years, I now think deference is part of the problem with the C of E.
I know a nearby church , of St Michael, but called in recent years St Mike’s. It’s an affectionate name.
Maybe I should be miffed as the key person who decided the name in the first place but I’m not. It’s much loved by the congregation.
(St) Paul… might translate as “shorty”…
Sweet
I felt them to be rhetorical questions. None or ne?
Not deference so much as manners.
I wonder if the folk in York have a deep affection for the saint or just like the church community.
Not a bad thing per se but all a bit sickly.
St Philip and St James in Oxford was widely and affectionately referred to as Pip and Jim, without accusations of dumbing down or disrespect. But that’s Oxbridge and not evangelical, so that’s different, isn’t it….
And there’s Pip and Jay in Bristol.
The sad thing is that Strategic Development Funding often goes to the large, often middle-class churches who have people skilled at the hoop-jumping task of bid writing. In one of my former work roles, I used to do it to get European Social Fund money. You have to know all the tricks and the buttons / keywords to press.
That is, unfortunately, a near-universal truth: that funding goes to those best able to access it, and those best able to access it are rarely those in most need. It’s possible to draw up ways of allocating funding that are mindful of this, but those methods are in turn gamed once they are known. The “solutions” are often universal funding, which is largely unaffordable: cf. Child Benefit and Winter Fuel Allowance. It’s made particularly bad the moment the funding body wants “evidence” of the success of whatever it was the money was for. That process — set objectives, ensure they… Read more »
The Charity Commission website has the accounts of any PCC with an income above £100k. As you are in Coventry Diocese, you could look St Mark’s Coventry which describes itself as a city centre resource church: https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/en/charity-search/-/charity-details/5135078/accounts-and-annual-returns St Mark’s, which is an HTB plant, had an annual income in 2023 of £317,341 and contributed £63,000 of that to the diocese as parish share. They also paid £113,093 in staff costs, presumably covering everyone on their Team page (https://www.stmarkscoventry.org/team) who receives a wage other than the vicar. My diocese estimates that a full time stipendiary minister costs around £55k (stipend, housing,… Read more »
Thanks John T. I’m not familiar with St Mark’s Coventry, but it might be a good example to look at. My guess is their parish share of £63K for 2023 is probably 100% of the cost of one stipendiary (my brief search indicates an official diocesan figure of £58K for the year 2018, and it has presumably gone up since). But the accounts also indicated they received a grant of £34K from Coventry Diocese for that year – which suggests they were a net loss on Diocese funds for that year. Previous years also show considerable grants from the Diocese… Read more »
How are they getting on with the 10,000 house churches they announced?
And I noticed 10000 house churches as a supposed inspiration in the particulars for a clergy job recently. In the same particulars it said the Diocese would assist in closing some of the churches there. The culture that has grown up of planting churches seems potty to me. And wholly unrealistic too.
It’s relevant in this thread, though not necessarily precisely here, so apologies for the clumsy placement:
For anyone who is interested, we publish quite a lot of information about parish finances, including various categories of income and expenditure, in the annual Parish Finance Statistics reports, most recently here: https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2024-02/parish-finance-statistics-2022.pdf
Across all Church of England parishes, about 31% of expenditure was on “parish share”. There is, of course, a lot of variation hidden beneath this aggregate figure.
As with all of our other work, suggestions for other analysis that would be useful are very welcome.
“Instead, I had, in December, a bizarre meeting with an empty shell of a man. There was no human connection. The most extraordinary thing is that, in a two-hour meeting, Justin did not use my name once. And at the end (I admit, late for another meeting), he just walked out. No handshake. No looking me in the eyes, clasping my hands. No final apology. So, for me, no closure. What a missed opportunity. For him, not me.” The most astonishing thing to me is the absence of an offer to pray together. In 72 years, nearly 40 of them… Read more »
I imagine that ++Welby modelled his approach on that of the masters at Eton. Though as you say dreadful behaviour for someone in Orders. Sadly the man is tin eared as was evidenced by his resignation speech in the House of Lords. The extent of the problem for the CofE manifested in that several of his colleagues (notably the Bishop of Manchester) were chortling away at his lame attempt to justify himself. Only the Bishop of London had her head in her hands.
I hope you decided to share this with his Office before you posted non prayerful enounter here?
Is it really surprising that ‘an empty shell of a man’ has no prayer in him to offer? Graham is describing a man barely functioning personally, pastoral and spiritually. I am distressed for ‘Graham’ who did not receive what he most sought and needed. I am also distressed by the description of a church leader so clearly close to the edge.
That was my reaction too. ‘Graham’ describes someone who is worn down and worn out and himself in need of support. While I suspect he resents being forced to it, the picture painted is that retirement was a blessing for ++Justin too.
I had some compassion for Justin in the immediate aftermath of his resignation announcement and to some extent still do, though it was reduced a bit when I read in Private Eye Ian Hislop’s withering description of encountering him the following day at a drinks reception at the British Museum. As others have said, he has a tin ear.
David, we have ‘Graham’s’ description of how he experienced this meeting but I wonder what ++Justin made of it. What did he think he was being asked to do, how genuinely did he strive to do it, and to what extent did he think he had succeeded or failed? ‘Graham’ believes that the needs he brought to the encounter were straightforward and should have been easy of fulfilment. ‘All I want is honesty, humble, human honesty.’ I know enough about ++Justin to know that he would have done what lay within his character to offer both honesty and humility but… Read more »
This is very perceptive and important reflection Jane. Thank you.
Jane, As someone not ordained and coming from outside the inner circles of the C of E I’m really struggling with your comments. You have always been very clear that you did not think Archbishop Welby should resign, and still see things from that angle. If as you say it is the sober truth that wounds of abuse inflicted during someone’s formative years cannot be healed this side of heaven the only logical conclusion has to be that the Archbishops’ Council et al have been right in not offering them redress all this time, and that death is their only… Read more »
Susanna, for accuracy, I haven’t said that I did not think Archbishop Welby should resign. The only comment I’ve made about that on this blog was soon after it happened when I wrote, ‘I think it was right that Welby resigned when he did. The situation had developed in a way that made it necessary.’ My comment here is simply that his resignation doesn’t seem to have resolved anything for survivors. Again for accuracy, I haven’t said that for survivors ‘death is their only way out’ therefore the Archbishops’ Council have been right in not offering them redress. I do… Read more »
As.a generality, most of the apologies I have heard from senior clerics, both to survivors and LGBT+ Christians, have been expressed in the first person plural. Unsurprisingly they have not typically been followed by any actions consistent with that ‘apology’. What we don’t hear is “I did X and Y wrong. I am sorry. I cannot put it right but I accept responsibility and this is what I am going to change/do.” I haven’t heard a single member of the Archbishops Council for instance apologise for their personal role in the disastrous way the ISB was disbanded. I would also… Read more »
I thought Welby always acknowledged his depression issues? We raise people up only to kick them down.
Amen. Few people understand clinical depression, then again how could they? I certainly could not have done Abp Justin’s job, in those circumstances. I mean he could have reported this disaster earlier and he should indeed have resigned, but stop the blame at ‘he didn’t shake my hand, didn’t feel like praying with me or looking me in the eye.’ The measure you mete out and all that.
An acquaintance of mine also knows Mr Welby personally, and told me, well before the resignation issues, that he was ‘a broken man’. He had the misfortune of holding office at a time when the institution gives every sign of falling apart and, despite all his efforts, there is nothing he could do to prevent it. Maybe Froghole can correct me if necessary, but I can’t think of any of his recent predecessors – say over my lifetime of 71 years – who have had to cope with a similar series of disasters. I’m also depressive; I can understand something… Read more »
Just reading the Papers online I see that on Monday his final day as Archbishop of Canterbury he is to celebrate a Eucharist in Lambeth Palace Chapel and finally he will make his last appearance as Archbishop of Canterbury at Evensong also in Lambeth Palace Chapel, where at the end of the Service he will formally lay down his Crozier (probably the Canterbury Diocesan Crozier) on the Altar of the Chapel as a sign of formally demitting office as Archbishop, the I expect on the quiet he will be given an unofficial informal Farewell with a small presentation by his… Read more »
I am sorry to read of your difficulties, and hope that you are able to establish a workable equilibrium, for your own peace of mind. Going back to 1954, I suspect the only comparable period which comes to mind was 1986-91, which was marred by three major events: (i) the personal attack upon Runcie by Bennett in the 1986 Crockford’s preface; (ii) the collapse in the financial standing of the Church Commissioners in the wake of the property slump after 1988; and (iii) the increasingly intense internal warfare between the supporters and opponents of female ordination, which threatened to break… Read more »
Froghole, could I question one statement in your otherwise very helpful summary. You state “There was also a pervasive sense of malaise throughout much of the Church and it was, of course, the period during which some of the most egregious abuse occurred: indeed, that abuse may well have occurred in part because of that atmosphere of disintegration and disillusionment.” It is a common discourse in conservative circles that such widespread sexual abuse only started in about the 1960s, and was triggered by the collapse in sexual morals in society at that time. The unstated assumption here is that before… Read more »
I agree with you completely. The abuse occurred well before, and well after, that turbulent period. However – and this is mere speculation – there was a sense of both national and local decay, or incipient rot, which may have amplified impunity in certain quarters as the 1980s progressed. That was certainly my own impression at the time, especially in certain specific areas, such as East Sussex, which was then local to me. The second half of the 1980s seemed to be a nadir period for the Church, although in political terms it saw the emergence of certain tropes and… Read more »
Thanks for the clarification, which I agree with. As with many things to do with sexuality, and especially homosexuality, one must always be aware of the difference between what actually happened in private, and what was perceived to be happening, or was recorded as happening, in public debate. I think it’s hard to argue that things did happen. One of my favourite bits of evidence is in a book of courtly gossip by Walter Mapp – De Nugis Curialium – a secular clerk from the Gloucestershire/Herefordshire area in the late 12th Century. “So also, two white abbots were conversing about… Read more »
Thank you very much indeed for the link to the OMT edition of 1983. When Monty James produced his edition (1914), based in part on the editio princeps undertaken by Thomas Wright for the Camden series (1850) he included almost no commentary and scant information about Map himself. This was pretty par for the course for James, and it led to some criticism in contemporary reviews. In his 1980 biography of James, the late Dick Pfaff noted that James produced a vast oeuvre, much of which was undertaken at high speed, but he often did so at the cost of… Read more »
You are right about the translators. Whilst I am grateful that these translations exist it is a great pity that these fascinating texts are still only available in English translations dating from 60, or even 100 years ago. Sadly they would have been translated according to the world view of that day, which risks missing out some of the nuance that might have been in a more modern translation. When the texts says “I have heard before now of a monk throwing himself upon a boy, but always, when the monk got up, the boy promptly got up too.” the… Read more »
Not surprising at all, and I have been concerned for Welby for several years. But, if Welby had agreed to meet with Graham in 2013, possibly he would have been in a better state to offer what Graham needed, and Graham in a better state to receive it. The delay in meeting Smyth survivors is inexcusable.
Agreed. This makes Graham’s sober & rather sorrowful account of the meeting all the more compelling. Unsurprisingly his anger at what was done to him often shines through in what he writes, but this was not the case here.
Exactly. As Graham writes ‘this whole damned saga has wrecked my life’
An earlier meeting might well have meant considerably less of it had been wrecked
Rouch offers one of the most perceptive comments on the Archbishop’s resignation Dr. Alec Ryrie observes that ‘the archbishop’s decision was actually a testament to the progress Welby had made in creating new protections. “The fact that he has changed the culture sufficiently that it’s reached the point that he himself could be forced to step down is, in a bitterly ironic way, a kind of achievement,” I think he is right and I while acknowledging much more still needs to be done, I am grateful.
A little statistical interjection, if I may (I am the person who has the job of for collecting, checking, collating, analysing, and publishing Church of England attendance statistics): Abigail Freemann Rouch writes: “Welby has been criticized for failing to reverse the decline in church attendance (though it has almost returned to pre-pandemic levels)” Martyn Percy writes: “the number of paid-up members of the church has effectively fallen off the cliff edge—and there is no sign that this decline is temporary.” The figures are available in the latest Statistics for Mission publication here: https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/statisticsformission2023.pdf The precise number depends on which measure… Read more »
(Sorry for the typos – I was sharing the computer with an unexpectedly-awake two-year-old and a Lego cat)
Thanks for that dose of reality, Ken Eames. “In October 2023 in-person attendance was 19% below what it was in 2019″. That’s certainly not a return to pre-pandemic levels. Not quite falling off a cliff, either, but the trend is very clear and surely calls for a massive re-direction of thinking? Heads out of the sand. Is the overwhelming focus on safeguarding driving everything else out of consideration? To someone looking in from the outside it does seem a bit like the only show in town.
Could I ask what ‘other’ issues should be taking up the space? What sort of ‘massive redirection of thinking’? The continuing shambles of safeguarding practices in the CofE may well make victims and others think it should be the only show in town. There was a comment elsewhere on this blog about a nativity play which had prompted the remark that the shepherds were probably ‘rehabilitated paedophiles’. I’m not surprised. The cynicism prompted by safeguarding failures in the CofE is there. I’m sure you aren’t suggesting that the institution must take priority. But I doubt whether ‘move on, that’s quite… Read more »
“restoring attendance” is not what I was thinking of. That’s not going to happen – and prioritising that goal at the expense of so much else has not been a spectacular success, has it? And neither am I saying “that’s quite enough of that”. Martyn Percy raises structural issues about the way the Church works (or doesn’t) as an institution. Those questions, about accountability and transparency, go to the heart of the matter. There is indeed a “continual shambles” in safeguarding and the question of why that is the case, after all these years, surely requires looking at governance more… Read more »
Thank you. I agree with all that.
‘Graham’ and other victims of abuse who are struggling to deal with the trauma and injustice from which they suffer, might be helped to find a way through by reading Bishop Rose Hudson-Wilkin’s autobiography, “The Girl From Montego Bay”.
John,
The book would have to be truly incredible to undo the huge damage she did to victims & survivors in her July 2023 BBC Hardtalk interview
Does not this new framework help the CoE policies and guidelines?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/06/yvette-cooper-says-she-will-force-professionals-to-report-child-sexual-abuse-claims
Is Alexis Jay the same Jay who reported and made recommendations to CoE? Just checked, yes.
It’s a shame the non-church is ahead of the church.
Yesterday Archbishop Justin retired in tragic and sad circumstances. Whatever our view of his ministry and how he has faced the challenges of the C of E and the Anglican Communion let’s pray both for him and his family. And also for all who continue to live with the effects of the abuse they suffered and the church’s failures in response. And also for the staff at Lambeth and in Canterbury.
Yvette Cooper made this statement in response to the Rotherham abuse scandal. One of the many factors in that long-running matter is the failure of the police to act, something which is also a factor in the Smyth case. How helpful is the duty to report something if the relevant authorities do not respond?
The fact that the police may not sufficiently follow up on a report of abuse, in no way should be used as an excuse not to report. I’m sure you did not mean it in that way.
What the new policies do is to ‘oil the wheels’ for reporting. At a meeting to discuss whether to report allegations of abuse, it just takes one person to say ‘we will be criminally liable (or whatever the new law will state) if we don’t’ for any discussion to end. This simply codifies what is already good safeguarding practice.
How helpful is the duty to report something if the relevant authorities do not respond? I think that is the irony of most ‘safeguarding’ – or rather, I mean there is a problem that it is trying to fix 2 problems while advocates often only think of one of these: Protect the vulnerable Protect the institution – – (but in a way that means we are not liable, not in a way that ignores any abuse of the vulnerable).I think it would be helpful if there was a bit of honesty that some of our policies (making reporting more ‘clear’… Read more »
Yes, there are several aspects, and box ticking does not of itself help victims. But it surely put to bed any idea that safeguarding can be kept within the church? If it has to be reported, then it has to be reported to some external authority? This is what the Jay report on CoE safeguarding recommended, if memory serves me right, and has been discussed at length on other threads on TA. ‘Just get on with it’ comes to mind. No need for any more debate. I think that if these proposed legal changes had been in place in 2013,… Read more »
I’m not sure what you’re responding to – maybe not me. Yes we should report to the police. Why do we need another agency to report to as well as them; what is that going to achieve in the context of objective-1; the vulnerable? Reporting to people within the church is vital if you want to for-example bar someone from coming into the building. Reporting to a body who can investigate and prosecute any crimes is vital – if that’s not the police then it needs to be a police-like-body, and it’s for the government to come up with (maybe… Read more »
Oh dear- we have marched up to the top of this particular hill and down again at least once before on TA threads since the Makin report came out. It is also not just the C of E which has dragged its feet about statutory reporting- the previous government (or its powerful friends and donors) didn’t fancy it either . So they also chose to ignore a very expensive report by Professor Jay – and in a mysterious way Elon Musk’s current political meddling may have helped the cause. I haven’t read the ICSA report for a while, but if… Read more »