Updated Wednesday
A number of relevant links have been included in the comments on this article. For convenience I have these listed below the govenrment press release.
Press release from the Prime Minister’s Office. There is more on the diocesan website.
Appointment of Bishop of Blackburn: 10 January 2023
The King has approved the nomination of The Right Reverend Philip North, Suffragan Bishop of Burnley, for election as Bishop of Blackburn.
From: Prime Minister’s Office, 10 Downing Street
Published 10 January 2023
The King has approved the nomination of The Right Reverend Philip North, Suffragan Bishop of Burnley, for election as Bishop of Blackburn, in succession to The Right Reverend Julian Henderson following his retirement.
Philip was educated at the University of York and trained for ministry at St Stephen’s House, Oxford. He served his title at St Mary the Virgin in the Diocese of Durham and was ordained priest in 1993. In 1996 Philip took up the role of Vicar at Holy Trinity and St Mark’s Hartlepool and was also appointed Area Dean of Hartlepool in 2000.
In 2002 Philip was appointed Priest Administrator of the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham, in the Diocese of Norwich, before being appointed Team Rector of the Parish of Old St Pancras, in the Diocese of London, in 2008.
Philip took up his current role as Bishop of Burnley in 2015.
Update
WATCH The Nomination of The Rt Rev’d Philip North as the next diocesan Bishop of Blackburn
Bishop Philip’s Address at the Cathedral during the announcement of the next Bishop of Blackburn.
Women in Ministry Statement from our new Bishop-Elect of Blackburn
From the Independent Reviewer’s Sheffield Report – Bishop North’s position on the ordination of women
Statement from the Society
If this appointment can be made on the watch of the outgoing cohort of General Synod CNC members, just think what appointments will come with the new more conservative cohort.
Excellent News and well deserved. Sheffield’s loss is Blackburn’s gain.
A well thought through appointment from people who know the Diocese and have worked with +Philip for some years. I may not agree with his theology but please let’s recognise that his appointment is permitted. Moreover people who denigrate this will be seen by people outside the ‘church’ as having petty ‘Unthinking’ internal arguments. Rejoice, serve and move forward!
Help me with this please. I can only see that people outside the church will see this as the “Christian Church” supposedly filled with love, equality, acceptance, against discrimination and l could go on, as gross hypocrisy. As a country we now have men and women paid as equals and appointed on merit but certainly equality of opportunity. However you sugar coat this as the word of God, you let God down. He is the God of today not thousands of years ago. My heart breaks with how this dreadful behaviour is allowed to go on as ‘mutual flourishing’ and… Read more »
The mystery is that the Church of England wonders why numbers are declining, particularly people of working age, but fails to see how its treatment of women and minorities affects how the church is viewed.
Question: Does Bishop Philip believe that Bishop Jill Duff, his Suffragan, is (a) a bishop, (b) a priest, (c) a deacon (probably yes, very easy to fluff this order). If the answer to any (or at least (a) and (b)) of the above is “No” then this is a reckless appointment. How can any woman in ministry in Blackburn be nourished in ministry by a Diocesan who does not believe they are ordained?
The Blackburn situation is not unique. The current Bishop of Chichester, who also does not ordain women as priests, himself appointed a woman as a suffragan bishop.
I’m conscious that as a layman in the diocese of Chichester I speak from a particular (privileged) perspective, but I guess my reply to Peter from Down Under’s very fair challenge goes something like: (1) It’s difficult and paradoxical – more a matter of lore and love than law and logic. Some women undoubtedly couldn’t/wouldn’t feel affirmed or enabled by a diocesan who doesn’t ordain women. (2) We talk a lot about the five guiding principles enabling the making of space for those who don’t accept women as priests and bishops. But it also requires +Chichester and indeed +Philip to… Read more »
I’m sorry, James, but you have misquoted from the first guiding principle. It does not require dissenting priests and bishops to accept that women priests and bishops are validly ordained. If this had been the requirement, SSWSH members would not have been able to sign up to it. What it does say is that they must affirm that ‘those whom it has duly ordained and appointed to office are true and lawful holders of the office which they occupy’. This is a crucial distinction – note the use of ‘office’ not ‘order’. So they have to accept that a woman… Read more »
You make some interesting points, Malcolm. I don’t want to comment specifically on Bishop Philip or Blackburn Diocese. I would like to make a couple of points about the position which affirms a woman’s right to hold an office, but cannot affirm her ordained ministry, though. I’ve long held that the Church is misguided to reduce the two elements of exercising ordained ministry into one – so holding an office in the C of E is not the same thing as being ordained to an order in the Church of God, in my view. But I find this whole situation… Read more »
Thank you, Realist, for exploring, more eloquently than I could hope to, the fundamental contradictions to which I was drawing attention. I agree with all that you say.
I too would like to know credible answers to the questions you pose, but I do not expect to hear any because there is a fundamental, ontological, incompatibility at the heart of this matter.
That is why this appointment is dangerous (reckless, even) and damaging to order and polity in the CofE, which still claims to be both catholic and reformed.
If that is what the first GP meant, and had that been put to General Synod, it would have been rejected. GS did not scrutinize the 5 GPs but we were very clear we wanted no discrimination in the Measure. The distinction made between ‘canonical’ ordination and
actual’ ordination has been played up by the Society but is not envisaged in the 5 GPs. It will only lead to problems further down the line.
Thanks, Charles, for your input. I bow to your much greater knowledge and experience, but I am genuinely puzzled by what you appear to be saying. If the first GP meant to say that all must accept that those duly ordained by the church were valid and lawful holders of their orders, then why did it not say so clearly? Instead it referred only to them being ‘true and lawful holders of the office which they occupy’, a roundabout form of wording which dodges the main issue at stake. The answer, I think, is that, if it had done so,… Read more »
Part of the problem here is that GS was told to leave the detail to the bishops. We saw but did not scrutinize the 5GPs. With hindsight, some of us would have held out but the desire was to ordain women as bishops a speedily as possible.
Thanks Charles. That explains a lot about how we got into the mess we are in. It has some unfortunate parallels with the political ‘Get Brexit done’ process, where a new leader, having promised to resolve a long-standing dispute, agreed to whatever was necessary to get it through, and then argued afterwards about how to clear up the resultant mess.
That’s correct – it’s called “mutual flourishing” something that we don’t hear so much about nowadays but, as they say “actions speak louder than words” and both the Blackburn and Chichester dioceses by their actions shew that there is indeed hope for the future with regard to mutual flourishing.
But no liberal bishop in Chi – either from Evangelical or Catholic wing. Ruth Bushyager Horsham) is Conevo – firmly anti-LGBTI & pro ‘traditional family’. Will Hazlewood (Lewes) is High-Anglican – guardian of shrine at Walsingham, Council member of “The Society”, & firmly anti-female priesthood, etc., etc. By the way Martin Warner originally promised in public that he would only ordain deacons (male & female), but not ordain any priests, so that he could have relationship with all his clergy. That promise went in the bin very swiftly, & he now makes big deal of ordaining the untainted to the… Read more »
What is exactly is mutual in this arrangement? One side does not agree with the validity of the priestly or episcopal orders of the other. They can legally and without sanction discriminate against women in employment practice, refuse their ministry and are offered alternative ministry by the national church to make it possible to do so. The other side, who deny the ministry of no one, simply has to put up with it.
I understand the imbalance of recognitions that you describe, David. But perhaps what should be mutual is respect for the sincere and conscientious views held in fidelity by both groups? I understood the Guiding Principles to be a commitment to one another to ‘agree to disagree’. A respect for the right of conflicting consciences. I sense a drawing back from that commitment. There seems to be pressure coming from WATCH and other parties to dispense with the Guiding Principles. I’m not really an expert in this field, but do you think that’s a fair observation? I’m honestly not trying to… Read more »
Hi Susannah. The WATCH statement on this appointment sums up my concerns very precisely.
Thanks David. Yes, I read the statement after I made my post and I thought it was more measured than the article the other week. I confess I am uncertain and somewhat perplexed on this issue. I find it hard to be enthusiastic if the Church reneges on a commitment it has made. It would feel like ‘slippery slope’ with a first commitment being gradually replaced with a less inclusive one. For example, what message would that send to conservative evangelical Christians opposed to gay sex being asked to trust that the Church of England will protect their consciences into… Read more »
It is debatable that GS made that kind of commitment – see my comments above. If the 5GPs are not working, better to revisit and revise than to plough on as if they are the law of the Medes and Persians…
Presumably Bishops North and Duff both believe that any same-sex person who has undergone a marriage ceremony with their spouse is not really married. I see no difference between Bishop Philip’s denial that Bishop Jill is really ordained, than her own choice not to recognise the marriages of certain other people.
Bishop Philip and Bishop Jill have worked closely together as fellow Suffragans, Bishop Jill chaired the diocesan consultation process which contributed to the appointment of Bishop Philip, and she speaks very warmly of him on the diocesan website. I think we can assume that she is happy with how he regards her ordained status. In the light of that I am not sure in what way this appointment is reckless. The diocese knows him well.
TWO HOURS and the crap has already started. I am glad that a Catholic who will not ordain women has been appointed as Bishop of Blackburn. For Too long, those of us who do not agree with the ordination of women as priests and bishops, have had women forced upon us. This appointment is good news for those of us that do not agree with women. Hopefully The new Bishop will appoint another Non ordaining MALE as his replacement as Bishop of Burnley. The status quo is starting to be evened out now!
Forced upon you !?! Can you give some examples of how you’re forced to endure women’s ministry?
I have personal experience of that very thing, Fr Dean. I was told that by bishop, archdeacon and rural dean that I had no grounds to refuse the ministry of women. As the same three had managed to convince all the parishes in the Deanery which had passed the Resolutions to remove them when they fell into interregnum, I had nowhere to go, so I resigned my Reader’s licence and left, never (Deo volente) to return.
I’m very ambivalent about my membership of the CofE, but for different reasons. Pastorally I hope that you can find somewhere that nurtures your faith; this can be more difficult in deeply rural areas as priestly ministry is being severely curtailed there. Sweet talking clerics aside if the PCCs voted to rescind the resolutions that is their right, however difficult that is for you to accept. I couldn’t begin to explain my relationship with the CofE, but after 25 years of public facing ministry it is nice now to have no responsibility for the worship or to engage with diocesan… Read more »
Thank you for being kind, Fr Dean.
Indeed, the parishes did have every right to rescind the Resolutions, however the way this was presented to the PCCs by the female rural dean was, “if you want a good priest then rescind the Resolutions, as good priests won’t want to be your vicar.”
Thankfully, I am thriving in a small but happy home, but the scars of being forced out are still with me.
North is merely a non-ordainer, other bishops in his diocese will continue to ordain the women. He would only impact on numbers of female priests being ‘forced’ upon you if he was a swivel-eyed believer in turning the clock back to pre-1992 Synod vote for female ordination. As it is he states that he is happy to appoint female clergy to parishes, his red line is that he will not concelebrate with them, or ordain them.
“Merely a non-ordainer”? But isn’t it more than that, Francis? That +Philip is a very fine bishop is not in doubt, but there is something fundamental lacking when a (diocesan) bishop cannot fully share sacramental ministry with his college of presbyters. Nonetheless, uncatholic though it is, that’s where the C of E finds herself. I wish him and the good folk of Blackburn well.
Reckless .. adj .. ‘heedless of danger or the consequences of one’s actions; rash or impetuous.’ Reckless this nomination is not. Of particular interest it clearly is. This nomination was anticipated (and discussed) by CNC watchers and therefore comes as no surprise to me. The Blackburn CNC had considerable advantages over the Sheffield CNC, and would almost certainly have been wiser. Firstly, as noted on this thread, Philip North was the internal candidate, well known therefore and with a well respected ministry in the diocese. They knew that, if he was ever to be translated to be a diocesan, it could only… Read more »
Might I suggest you do not know Blackburn Diocese and the people +Philip has worked with for eight years? The appointment is allowed. Please move on and ‘think’ about more important matters. (I have appreciated +Philip’s contributions to Radio4 Thought for the Day.)
I am absolutely certain that the answer to all three questions is yes. However Bishop North is trapped into a certain constituency in the Church to whom he has a duty.
‘Trapped’, indeed! That’s certainly a new line in what has been a well-rehearsed debate on this and the earlier attempts to secure preferment for +North. So who, pray, is trapping him in his constituency and what is his duty to them? I suggest that he himself holds the key and the power to break his chains. He has already been reported as saying that he affirms the orders of women priests in his diocese, although I find this incompatible with his reported statement that he will not receive the sacraments from them. All he needs to do is to renounce… Read more »
That is all he needs to do, yes, but I suspect he fears that he will be letting a lot of people down to whom he feels pastorally responsible.
I disagree with him about women priests, but I was impressed by him when I took part in an online discussion to which he contributed. I liked the way he shared with the Dean in leading the service from Blackburn Cathedral broadcast on Christmas Day.
I give it 2 weeks before he pulls out for a third time.
I’d give it a bit longer than that, but I think it will be an unstable appointment and the same problem which brought down his earlier appointments at Whitby and Sheffield will manifest itself here. It is an ontological impossibility for a bishop who does not believe that women can be priests or bishops to act as the Ordinary, and focus of unity, in a diocese which has many women priests and a suffragan woman bishop. Make no mistake – I too think that +North is an excellent priest and preacher who has much to offer but, whist he remains… Read more »
+North? Excellent priest and preacher etc. Not worthy of a Christian name though.
Sorry – no offence was intended. It’s just a form of shorthand frequently used by many on this blog. It may be an age thing – I was brought up to think that it was impolite to refer to someone by their Christian name unless one knew them, and that the more polite form was to use their surname together with the appropriate title, in this case Bishop (shorthand +).
He always seems to be 2nd time lucky!
I doubt it. The CNC will not have made this appointment without ensuring there was sufficient support. My guess is that Philip North was the unanimous choice of the diocesan representatives and the central representatives did not wish to overrule them.
Yes. I heard +Philip being talked about as the next Blackburn even before +Julian Henderson announced his retirement.
May God bless Bishop Philip, and all those – men and women – lucky enough to be blessed by the decency and care of a person of great integrity. May God give him wisdom in the complexities of his position, and may God give him grace.
As someone whose Private Member’s Motion (PMM) at General Synod (tabled in March 2017 but not, in the event, debated, for the reasons I gave in July 2021) proposed that the Synod, “(a) share the sadness and regret of the Rt Revd Philip North in his decision, announced on 9 March 2017, to withdraw acceptance of his nomination to the See of Sheffield; (b) note the substantial support for Bishop North’s nomination from many women and men, lay and ordained, in the dioceses of both Sheffield and Blackburn, and in the wider Church of England; (c) express its full support… Read more »
The first time a Bishop of Burnley has been translated to a diocese since the first holder of the post, Sir Edwyn Hoskyns, was translated to Southwell in 1904.
Given the problems over Whitby and Sheffield presumably it’s safe to say that it wasn’t a strong field of candidates for this diocese rumoured to be in financial difficulties. No doubt the person specification for a replacement for the see of Burnley is being finalised. Too many chiefs in the CofE and a rapidly declining number of people for them to manage.
It is not impossible, but at this stage unlikely, that the See of Burnley will be filled.
Negative judgments from afar completely misread the situation on the ground. Blackburn diocese has been uniquely placed to observe +Philip as a bishop. I know – I was DDO in the diocese for 12 years, with +Philip as my line manager for the last three. We were far apart theologically but his graciousness and personal warmth meant that he could work with (virtually) anyone. The women clergy felt encouraged and supported by him. The bishops there worked as a complementary team and I have no doubt that will continue (watch for whom he appoints as Bishop of Burnley) and the… Read more »
This is a powerful testimony from someone in a position to know. I don’t doubt +North’s graciousness and personal warmth but I can’t begin to understand how he can act with integrity towards the women priests over whom he will hold authority and, at the same time, act with integrity to the beliefs and policy of SSWSH, of which I understand he remains a member. At the time of his appointment to Sheffield, the women priests of that diocese asked him a whole series of questions about how he would behave in detailed circumstances of interaction. They were not satisfied… Read more »
And interesting about that meeting (as reported in the Independent Reviewer’s Report), the Dean of Women’s ministry thought the meeting ‘she felt that it had gone reasonably well’ but Bishop Philip ‘in his view “a savaging” – I wonder how robust challenge and questioning as diocesan will be dealt with?
Thank you, Michael, for this reminder of the different perceptions of the Sheffield meeting. I wonder as well how it will go this time. The female suffragan and the Dean of Women’s Ministry in Blackburn have given glowing endorsements of +North, but they can’t be thought to speak for all the women priests.
We are all sinners. We are all imperfect. Should someone imperfect automatically be barred from office? I think not as then nobody could be appointed. The question then is whether someone’s imperfections are so large as to outweigh the benefits of their appointment. I agree with the generality that those who won’t ordain women are typically unsuited for selection as a diocesan bishop, just as I believe those who won’t celebrate same sex marriages are generally unsuited for parish ministry because of the impact on LGBT parishioners. I also think it is inconsistent not to see the two cases as… Read more »
I cannot see how a perfectly argued and acceptable theological position can be described as being a “flaw”. It’s like saying being a Protestant is morally acceptable, but being Catholic is flawed.
This thread risks descending into a “mansplaining” bonanza, with 21 posts, 19 of them by men, and not one by an ordained woman (although I do recognize the always valuable contributions of Susannah and Kate).
To provide some balance I checked what Women and the Church had to say about this, and their analysis seemed pretty convincing to me.
https://womenandthechurch.org/news/the-nomination-of-the-rt-revd-philip-north-as-the-next-diocesan-bishop-of-blackburn/
Might it be useful to concentrate instead on where Bishop Philip excels? When he speaks about the socially marginalised and those on very limited incomes he is both compassionate and challenging. I worry that much of what he says isn’t heard because of his attitude to ordaining women. While I don’t have a calling to sacramental ministry, I am very glad that many women do – and am fortunate enough to be in a diocese led by a female bishop. But I am also a huge admirer of Bishop Philip because of his prophetic gifts and social concern.
I am glad to acknowledge Bishop Philip’s many admirable skills and qualities, as does WATCH. I do hope that the Church of England can find him a role that uses his ministry to the full. But I just question whether the role of diocesan Bishop is the right one. I repeat my main comment. The vast majority of posts here are by men, and not one single post, including your own, is by an ordained woman, the category of person most affected by this decision. Until I hear what they say I will reserve judgement. But even then I wonder… Read more »
For fourteen years in my previous parish I had the fortune of not having even one visit from my diocesan bishop. This affected me not one jot. I’m wondering what practical consequences women in Blackburn Diocese expect if Bishop Philip leaves them alone to get on with their job.
The bishop you never saw did not doubt you were ordained. Is that better than a bishop you saw from time to time who thinks you are not? (This is a genuine question btw and not a dig at Philip North himself!)
I would have been very happy not to see a Bishop who thought I wasn’t ordained. It is sometimes better not to see a Bishop at all.
Fully agree. As so much on this site is about people feeling “safe” in the church, I do wonder if the ordinary female clergy and ordinands of Blackburn feel “safe”? After all, the fundamental ontology of their vocation is being profoundly questioned by the views of their leader.
Sorry, Simon, to be continuing in what you regard as ‘mansplaining’ but there is a reason for the lack of direct contributions from women priests in this and related threads, to which you allude yourself. It is not just in Blackburn diocese that women priests dare not speak honestly and openly about how they feel. The second class status afforded to women priests, where they have to respect the special measures put in place to protect the dissenting minority, but the minority are not required to accept the validity of their orders, represents no sort of flourishing whatever, and especially… Read more »
Thanks Malcolm. I was aware of the irony involved in commenting about mansplaining, whilst engaging in a bit of mansplaining myself.
Your subsequent comments match my own experience.
Best wishes.
One reason for lack of female input may well be bad past experience. My wife & I (both laity) have found that on social media if she comments she receives a patronising and/or insulting male put-down of some form: she is overreacting, she does not really understand, she needs to respect matters of conscience, she should not rock the boat, etc., etc. However, if I use her words under my name there is none of that.
Thank you Simon.
OK so the carping has started already. No he will not be hounded out this time. The opposition to him shot their bolt in Sheffield. If people do not want traditional Catholics as diocesans or suffragans, surely it is time for PEVs to have ordinary jurisdiction, rather than simply delegated charge; a truly Anglican ordinariate, or non geographical Diocese.
Or perhaps, if this deeply flawed settlement is to continue indefinitely, which has been made much more likely by this appointment, it is time to put in place proper arrangements for women priests stranded in a diocese where their diocesan bishop does not accept that they are priests at all. At the moment, in contrast to the lavish arrangements put in place to provide the sacramental assurance dissenters crave, women priests in that position have no option but to suffer in silence or seek a post elsewhere. A suffragan who affirms women priests’ orders doesn’t even begin to cut it.
Bishop Philip’s Address at the Cathedral during the announcement of the next Bishop of Blackburn.
https://www.blackburn.anglican.org/storage/general-files/shares/Resources/Talks%20articles%20and%20sermons/Announcement%20Speech%20Cathedral.pdf
Women in Ministry Statement from our new Bishop-Elect of Blackburn
https://www.blackburn.anglican.org/women-in-ministry-statement-from-our-new
https://twitter.com/liturgicalben/status/1612829539532693504?s=61&t=j2FuHftIZWi87HDsOCPAUQ
I dont read much good news about the church on here. There is a relentless negativity which is so depressing. But… when something good comes along – or someone good – comes along then we should rejoice. And whilst I do not share +Philip’s views on ordination of women. For once, I want to rejoice about this being good news for the people of Lancashire. If you want a voice for the voiceless, then +Philip will be that. If I lived was one of the 1.5 million people who live in Lancashire, I would be heartened by this appointment.
Very good points, Homeless Anglican. Despite the theological questions I’ve raised elsewhere on this thread, I think this appointment has huge potential. I would just like to make one comment about being a voice for the voiceless, though. If you are a working class person who likes to have middle class people speak for you and decide what you need, then undoubtedly, on past form, +Philip will be exactly the person you need. He is tireless in championing the poor and I, for one, applaud him for that. Speaking truth to power is so badly needed. But, when you are… Read more »
As someone who has spent thirty years (until last year) in very deprived parishes, can I just say that my experience is that too many well meaning organisations and others have treated these places like mushroom farms: and you know how they grow mushrooms! Rarely are these good folk encouraged to do it for themselves or given the resources to do so long term. Too often they keep silent when faced with outsiders and get on and do the best they can. On Bishop Philip, can I say he has been priest in a very deprived parish and knows of… Read more »
Yes! Agree exactly about working class people and ministry training. I have been in too many meetings where people with degrees tell me that university accredited study is not appropriate for working class candidates. I listen patiently before mentioning that I am from a working class background, was the first in my family to go to university and then indeed onto further study including a higher degree. I have now taught many candidates who got their first chance of university education through ministry training. Perhaps I should hand back my degrees and repent of my wicked ways!
Statement from the Society:
http://www.sswsh.com/fullposts.php?id=339
Simon Dawson has commented that there has been a lot of ‘mansplaining’ on this thread, and not one comment from an ordained woman. So here goes. I was installed as priest in charge of a parish by a non-ordaining bishop who refused to use the word ‘priest’ in the service. He was a master of elegant variation – minister, pastor, shepherd – but never priest. It was a challenging parish and that didn’t feel like a good start. His views on women’s ministry were widely known, and that tended to undermine the possibility of my being fully accepted by some… Read more »
I perhaps ought to add that it is only since retiring, and having more opportunity to reflect, that I have realised how much I was damaged by working within this discriminatory framework.
Thank you Janet for your bravery in making these posts. I hope that you receive only positive reaction.
As you imply, it is so much more difficult for serving women priests to make such comments. They just have to suffer in silence.
This is far from being a victimless appointment, in which all may rejoice unequivocally.
Thank you, Malcolm.
My penny worth. I have spent over twenty years working in theological training, ministry development, as a ddo and as friend, consultant and spiritual director in the world of ministry. It has been a joyful honour to walk alongside women in various expressions of ministry during that time. In my experience each must find their own way of living and working in a church that actually discriminates against them, and calls it ‘mutual’, while expecting them flourish. It is a mixed story, as personal as it vocational. No man can ever know what that must be like and `I am… Read more »
+Jill is happy to appear on conservative evangelical websites espousing views which many LGBTQ people must find debilitating and wounding. It can’t be a joyful honour to hear views which must make many people uncomfortable. Discriminating against fellow Christians isn’t the sole preserve of male clergy.
I never said it was. You are not responding to the actual discussion here
I fail to see how the appointment of one bishop discriminates against all women clergy, when the whole of the House of Bishops have been discriminating against LGBTQ for years. My own local vicar is a woman. I have a priest friend in The Society. Both seem quite happy to me.
‘I fail to see how the appointment of one bishop discriminates against all women clergy.’ And no one here is saying that. Jane Charman’s reflection and the WATCH article linked here outline the actual concerns about +Philip’s appointment as a diocesan bishop.
It’s the current system as a whole which discriminates against all women clergy – not this particular appointment.
Thank you David and Janet for two eloquent and thoughtful comments. In response, I think there are two issues involved in this women’s ordination issue, theological and pastoral. Both are important, and both need to be discussed. Both of you discuss the pastoral issue of how to support men and (especially) women through the spiritual and emotional pain of living with the fudge of the five guiding principles. That is important, and the first thing is to hear that pain, which is why I made that first post about mansplaining. But for me personally that is not the primary issue.… Read more »
Obviously there are theological grounds upon which women cannot be ordained in, say, the Ukrainian Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. To believe there are no theological grounds to bar women priests in the CofE also is patently not true. Otherwise there would be no conscientious allowances for those opposed. For “theological”, why not just read “matter of opinion”? Theology is not objective science. The fact the majority of Christendom has reached a different conclusion about women clergy is part of the grounds upon which Bishop Philip can’t accept them. To argue against the majority “on theological grounds” might sound more… Read more »
General Synod decided some three decades ago that there was no theological bar against the ordination of women.
I know that. But it made provision for those who think there are.
… and those who believe that the matter is beyond the remit of General Synod.
But in a divided Christendom what remit has the C if E in this matter or indeed others? Rome and the Orthodox both claim to be the true Church (and neither recognise Anglican orders) and therefore wouldn’t think of consulting us on any significant matter. The C of E claims to be “part of” the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church believing Christ’s Church is in internal schism whereas Rome and the Orthodox see schism as from the Church. It is a problematic ecclesiology no doubt. But as Dave below says the C of E took unilateral action at the… Read more »
May I comment on a few contributions to this thread, in the order in which they appear: (a) Francis James notes that there is no liberal bishop in the Diocese of Chichester. I do not know whether that is meant as a statement of fact, or a complaint, but there are also several dioceses with no Anglo-Catholic bishops. I wonder if either of these perceived deficits is deemed more serious than the other? (b) John says “For too long, those of us who do not agree with the ordination of women as priests and bishops have had women forced upon… Read more »
One or two on this blog have asked for more comment from ordained women – here’s mine. I am among those who think that, despite his many gifts, +Philip is not yet in a position to serve with integrity as a diocesan bishop. My concerns are ecclesial not personal and I hope will be received by him in that spirit – as I’m sure he would say about his own concerns regarding female clergy. It’s been suggested elsewhere that +Philip’s views have been deliberately misunderstood. I think they have been ‘not understood’ rather than ‘misunderstood’, mainly because they contain internal… Read more »
As stated above, I believe ‘painted into a corner’ best describes his current position. I would guess that this must also be where Bishop Baker of Fulham stands. Neither dare move out of loyalty to (or possibly, fear of) that constituency which looks up to them for leadership and oversight.
You may well be right and if +Philip really believes what he says he believes he may even take the next step. I do think receiving communion but refraining from ordaining would make better sense than his current position. I’m also musing on the utter weirdness of hearing +Jonathan make the case in General Synod for interchangeability of ministry with the Methodist Church. Can he possibly regard his ministry as interchangeable with Methodist partners but not with female clergy in his own church? Was he commending to others what he didn’t intend to practise himself? Or, as you suggest, is he… Read more »
I can’t help thinking that you are making windows into men’s souls here. And the suggestion that any bishop need have fear of the trad Catholic constituency is utterly misplaced: when Mark Sowerby, then Bishop of Horsham, changed his mind on this matter there was no ill-will towards him. Indeed, as this thread has demonstrated yet again, the ill-will and rancour on this matter comes from the self-proclaimed liberals.
I have not noticed any ill will or rancour anywhere on their thread.
What would your own feeling be if Bishop North were now to announce his withdrawal from SSWSH and and that from now on he will ordain women to the priesthood?
“no ill-will towards him” when Sowerby crossed over from the Society to the pro-female side. Wow! You must be talking about a different Chichester in a parallel universe. Or else you are joking.
Jane, thank you for such a helpful post. One or two comments: It is so good you separate person from principle here. No one is denying he is a ‘good chap’ however the tortuous position he holds vis-a-vis women priests is neither logical nor acceptable, in my opinion. ‘Unilateral decision of Church of England’ – well its done that sort of thing before – for example at the Reformation. If one cannot accept this then I can only see that the position is to move to a church where one is more comfortable. The terms of the Society seems to… Read more »
With this wonderful contribution I’m happy for womansplaining any day! Thank you Jane
Thank you, Jane, for this most lucid exploration of the fundamental contradiction at the heart of this debate. I hope that +Philip reads it and receives it in the spirit in which you meant it. Another contradiction, closely related to the ‘painted into a corner’ possibility which you mention, is that he remains a member of the Bishops’ Council of SSWSH. Although he now states that he affirms the validity of female orders, SSWSH makes it abundantly clear that it does not, even to the extent of regarding as ‘unsound’ a male priest who has been ordained by a male… Read more »
It was with great sadness I read about the appointment of Philip North as a Diocesan bishop, and I’m further saddened by how little public attention it has received- possibly obscured by the backdrop of this week’s other revelations and strikes. The exemptions from the rule of law enjoyed by the Church of England beggars belief to those of us not within its inner circle- in any reputable organisation an employee who refused to work on equal terms with female colleagues would be subject to disciplinary measures, not elevation. I have also just read the justificatory comments from Bishop North’s… Read more »
“Clearly the ‘get out of jail free card’ for misogynistic clergy is to be good at ‘mission’…”
To be clear, are you saying Bishop Philip is misogynistic?
Not only good at mission but also good at evangelism – two great enterprises that the Good Lord himself laid upon His Church! I remember Bishop Philip preaching one year at the Glastonbury annual pilgrimage on St. John’s premier sign of turning water into wine, it was one of the finest sermons I have ever heard. So, not so much a Get out of Jail Free card but more Go straight to Go and become Chief Pastor of the diocese of Blackburn. By the way being a good pastor is also one of Bishop Philip’s many gifts.
No one is denying +Philip is a highly gifted priest. That is not the issue. But you offer no indication that you have read or considered the strong concerns on this thread and elsewhere about this appointment.
I think it’s sad you think he should not have his job . That’s the issue. Appoint only people you agree with.
Not exactly. If the church decides that ministry is open equally to women and men it is right to make gracious provision for the minority who cannot agree with this. But it is quite another thing – and simply not appropriate – to appoint to its senior leadership those who cannot accept the full ministry of women and are not in communion with them.
It’s a strange concept that “gracious provision” means being consigned to the side lines where people should remain and never emerge from the naughty step. Bishop Philip’s predecessor had very strident views regarding gay relationships, and threatened to quit the CofE if people weren’t discriminated against. Presumably being “in communion” with homophobes is acceptable. But not recognising women bishops is beyond the pale.
Blackburn’s dean of women’s ministry, the Reverend Anne Beverley, said “For us, this isn’t a backward step, this is very much a good step. It’s a positive move for our diocese” She added that the criticism of the appointment showed the Church was “learning how to disagree well, so we learn how to love one another and yet disagree over some fundamental things” Bishop Philip’s appointment has caused few ripples outside the Church, since no one is really bothered about internal wranglings inside the CofE Thankfully we live in a tolerant, secular society which allows religious bodies to be free… Read more »
Dealing with the anti-female brigade, whether male headship or high Anglican, reminds me of the history of negotiating with communist states. You compromise by moving a bit towards their position, but their idea of compromise is to take your compromise while not budging an inch in their position, this process goes on until you have moved to accept their position in entirety & totally ceded your own.
Of course some women accept the status quo in the CofE, just as in the past some women campaigned against women getting the vote.
I am not sure how inferring that female supporters of +Philip’s appointment are somehow lacking in diplomacy skills or foresight is very helpful to women in the Church of England, or their rightful flourishing in leadership roles.
As a matter of interest, how many of the people complaining about Bishop North’s appointment come from within the Diocese of Blackburn, and how many are external to it?
Is the Diocese of Blackburn opposed to this appointment? Reading Anthony Archer’s post, based on his own appointments experience, you get the impression that Philip North would not have been appointed without considerable care over consultation with the Diocese. He concludes: “overall, I believe it to be an imaginative (if not completely risk-free – no appointment is completely risk-free) nomination that has as good a chance of offering the diocese much needed leadership as any other.”
Similarly, how many of those who approve and are positive and hopeful concerning Bishop Philip’s appointment come from within the diocese of Blackburn and how many are external to it?
Not many miles from here is a small rural market town with a cathedralesque parish church in an attractive close with a regular Sunday attendance of about 60.It seems likely that nobody will be willing to stand for churchwarden, the duties being regarded as too onerous. The church is unlocked and locked each day by a woman in her late 70s who is minding an increasingly demented husband. There has already been talk of locking the door and handing the key to the archdeacon—not serious perhaps, but that it has been raised is significant. I expect this scenario is replicated… Read more »
Odd that HTB have not expressed an interest in BOT, or is it? The timing of +Blackburn couldn’t have been timed better. Totally eclipsed by the Bishops’ LLF statement. With Philip North and the new SSWSH bishops in post I can see a few more clergy and parishes signing up for their oversight, especially those looking for clear guidance over the use of whatever new liturgy emerges from GS https://www.sswsh.com/fullposts.php?id=342 https://www.sswsh.com/fullposts.php?id=342
Stephen, greetings. The church and town (large village really) of which I wrote is not BOT (in case you thought it was) but the place where I served my title with a first class TI – a happy time. It has been in vacancy for 6 months. There were no applicants first time round and only one on the second (I’m open to correction). It used to be a “plum” job in the diocese. It is well outside the M25 of course and the nearest Waitrose is in Buxton about 25 miles over hill, over dale, with trucks, tractors and… Read more »
Stephen, I think I misunderstood your point. If you mean that evangelicals may seek oversight from Ebbsfleet mark II, then I think you are on to something. What might deter them is that they may have no objection to women priests in authority. So then we “need” another class of flying bishop:evangelical, orthodox (as they see it), but not against women in authority. Further fragmentation (Greek: diabolos) beckons.
You are quite right, Stephen, about the timing of the Blackburn announcement, and it has indeed now been eclipsed by the LLF statements. And there isn’t a single letter on the subject in today’s CT, for or against. So those responsible planned it carefully and got all those it could onside (or at least not supporting any pushback).The washhouse rules, OK! So any pretence of catholic order within the CofE has gone out of the window, with a bishop who is not in communion with a substantial number of the priests in his diocese. Arguably, catholic order disappeared 30 years… Read more »