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Chantal Noppen ViaMedia.News Rounding up Sheep or Assembling Cats? Governance in the United Reformed Church and the Church of England
Martyn Percy Surviving Church Joining the Dots Christianity – Assessing Alpha
Colin Coward Unadulterated Love The past, the present and the future Church of England
‘The assumption Alpha appears to make – common to a good deal of evangelical apologetics – is that people become Christians first, then think about joining a church.’ Not surprising that Martyn Percy would make this comment, since by his own admission he has never attended an Alpha course. Alpha is in fact an incredibly communal event. For the leadership team, many people working together to use the diverse gifts of members of the Body. For the guests, who form community by eating and discussing together. Sorry, Martyn, but reading the material doesn’t cut it (although it is a common… Read more »
In one sense, yes, you’re right, as Martyn’s critique must be based on the printed material if he’s never been to a course. But in another his comment which you quote certainly echoes my own experiences of many years ago, before ‘Mission England’. As a CU convert, no one actually checked to see if I’d joined a church, or indeed saw that I found one; for quite some time the CU itself was my church. This seems a common problem – the apologist wishes to appeal to as broad a denominational base as possible, and so the various strands of… Read more »
Nicky and I wouldn’t get along either – I say that as someone who ran Alpha in the 1990s, but gradually realised that the course never actually got around to telling the story of Jesus, which is a serious omission in something purporting to be an inquirers’ course. That’s one of the reasons why I eventually created my own course. I just think that the strongest experiences in my life of churches living out what it means to be the body of Christ – each with their gifts, using them for the benefit of the whole body, acting as Christ’s… Read more »
I’d agree with your assessment, Tim. The same is true in my experience too. The one thing which those effective churches have in common is that they genuinely live their faith in their daily and communal lives, taking the wider practical implications seriously and letting the Holy Spirit live through them – and, thank God, my church is one of many that does. Only the Spirit can do it – looking outwards into the world around us with warmed hearts, and at the same time, upwards to God and inwards to one another. And when that happens, the wrong way… Read more »
I agree with you Tim. And the analysis in this article has a very dated feel. I wonder when it was written. It really is some years now since they stopped stuffing the Church Times with Alpha News. The basic content of Alpha was not the invention of HTB. Variations were already widely in use, for example at student churches like St Aldate’s Oxford, and elsewhere. But HTB had the resources to name, package and market it widely. I am not ungrateful. There is an urgent need for an informed, unprejudiced, theological and cultural critique of HTB, and the evangelical… Read more »
I see the eminent historian Diarmaid MacCulloch has a strong view on this subject when he lists his opponents as the “usual suspects”, evangelical devotees of the “detestable” Alpha course led by Holy Trinity Brompton in London, or from the “strongholds of all things homophobic” that are often “outposts of the diocese of Sydney, Australia”
These quotes are from here
https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/08/i-thought-of-the-church-as-a-friend-and-it-slapped-me-in-the-face-historian-diarmaid-macculloch-on-the-church-of-englands-hypocrisy
I have attended an Alpha Course, and Martyn Percy is bang on the money. The meal and the discussions are very smart ideas and full credit for the ideas: they must account for much of the ‘success’ of the course. The content of the talks are, in my experience, exactly as MP describes.
I have been to several Alpha courses and run some – Andrew is right.
Tim… I think you are absolutely right about the “communal event” nature of Alpha. The idea that participants are not thinking about joining a church until the course is over simply doesn’t fit my experiences of leading it. Too binary a view. Reading the material isn’t to experience the course (or any other?) Otherwise “ people become Christians first, then think about joining a church”. .. I fail to see this as a reasonable criticism. Isn’t it a fundamental to basic evangelism that isn’t only” fishing” existing church pools but reaching out beyond the borders? His criticism of its lack of… Read more »
‘It will be interesting to see how many attending the courses, then ‘making a decision’, or having a numinous experience, are actually members of their local church in two years time. My guess is that for all the hype, triumphalism and talk, this course is mainly about ‘refreshing’ charismatic-evangelical identity. It does not address the world in all its pain, ambiguity and profusion – so it won’t actually change it, in spite of the claims.’ Guesses and hunches written about some time ago it seems – well those turned out to false. Embarrassing. Perhaps a public retraction of these articles might restore… Read more »
I’m a bit out of touch with the charismatic world, so can’t comment on how old Martyn’s pieces may be – perhaps he can tell us – but has there actually been a major ‘new movement of the Spirit’ recently in a similar way? Pensacola came and went, as to a degree have various other individuals and groups which were essentially part and parcel of those he identifies. Sadly, the one thing so many of them have in common has been a tendency to end in scandal, financial or sexual due to the abuse of pyramidal power structures. So (setting… Read more »
Very interesting New Statesman article on the next Archbishop of Canterbury suggesting +Leicester, +Norwich and +Chelmsford as possible candidates. Given that 4/6 central members are conservative, and presumably some of the Anglican communion representatives will be conservative, I would have thought it would be very difficult for a non-conservative candidate to get a 2/3 majority. So is +Leicester the favourite, or are there any other viable candidates?
I doubt +Leicester would be seen as sufficiently hardline by the conservatives. They’ll want someone like Charlie Skrine or Archie Coates. It’s doubtful that conservatives would countenance a woman, otherwise Bishop Bushyager might be a possibility – she gave a platform to those advocating gay conversion therapy so the Prime Minister’s appointment secretary might baulk at her name going forward to His Majesty.
Ironic that Bushyager being a woman makes her unacceptable candidate as ABC for ConEvos as she is otherwise thoroughly on-message. Warner played a blinder in appointing her, as it never occurred to the Chi liberals that the female bishop they had dreamed of for so long would turn out to be so conservative
How about +Chester? Mark is prayerful, has a good mind, a pastoral heart, and tonnes of the right kind of experience.
Re: Assessing Alpha, note today’s Guardian Interview with Dairmaid MacCulloch about his new book. ” [MacCulloch] lists his opponents as the ‘usual suspects’, evangelical devotees of the ‘detestable’ Alpha course led by Holy Trinity Brompton in London, or from the ‘strongholds of all things homophobic’ that are often “outposts of the diocese of Sydney, Australia”. His stuff is always a great read. I just love this guy. Frist rate historian.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/08/i-thought-of-the-church-as-a-friend-and-it-slapped-me-in-the-face-historian-diarmaid-macculloch-on-the-church-of-englands-hypocrisy
I have been looking forward to this book coming out for a long time.
When it comes to the appalling treatment of women and homosexual people, the church has many very embarrassing secrets hidden away.
The emeritus professor of the history of the church at the university of Oxford is exactly the right person to expose those secrets to public view.
Ditto, Simon. Looking forwad to it. -Rod
I wonder how many ConEvos will be spotted leaving Heffer’s or a n other good bookseller with a copy peeping out of a brown paper bag? A package from an online retailer might be opened by a secretary or unsuspecting spouse. It sounds as though it’ll be filth, pure filth, I’m going to ask my local public library to stock it.
The late great John R.W. Stott had a rule that before he criticised a person in writing, he would not only read their work but also talk to them about it in person. I think there are still some members of my former tribe who aspire to that level of integrity.
True – but how does an ordinary joe in the pew (someone at my level) get to meet someone like Dairmaid McCulloch in person?
I did meet David Watson and John Sentamu, once each, but not in circumstances that permitted a friendly discussion!
One hopes he actually deals with the scriptures themselves and their interpretation as part of his discourse. What liberals/progressives need to be able to do is beat the conservatives at their own game, not simply lob potshots that are irrelevant to their primary concerns.
Ewen, the second reading yesterday gave a challenging text from the letter of James. We liberals can do scripture.
“What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works?”
I think it entirely appropriate to value a book examining the works of the Christian church over 2000 years, and to explore why so often the works of the church have entailed suffering for women and LGBTQ people.
Professor MacCulloch is a historian so I doubt his book will go over that well worn ground. Much more fascinating and probably entertaining is to see detailed the Church’s hypocrisy on matters of sexuality.
Personally speaking, I think I’ll give it a miss – I don’t need any help in thinking of examples in my own experience.
Rod, whatever might be said about the views of HTB-affiliated people about LGBTQI+ inclusion, it’s irrelevant to a review of Alpha, as homosexuality is not mentioned at all in the Alpha course. Neither is marriage, actually. They are mentioned in some of the follow-up materials (in particular, in Nicky Gumbel’s book ‘Searching Issues’), but not in the course itself.
Tim, perhaps it could be argued that the lack of mention of LGBTQ+ issues is a relevant point in a review of Alpha. This is a topic that has split the church across the world, so why is it not mentioned? It’s like Sherlock Holmes’ dog that did not bark in the night. Why did it not bark, or why are LGBTQ+ issues not mentioned. The suspicion is that if Alpha were to include typical Evangelical teachings on LGBTQ+ issues and marriage within the teaching material for newcomers it will create huge tensions, and scare many people off, and so… Read more »
‘Tim, perhaps it could be argued that the lack of mention of LGBTQ+ issues is a relevant point in a review of Alpha. This is a topic that has split the church across the world, so why is it not mentioned?’ Because there’s a follow-up study (one of three), ‘Searching Issues’, which intentionally focuses on controversial questions and gives the answer you are expecting. I’m not saying HTB doesn’t have a position (of course it does, and I disagree with it). But honestly, I’ve written a Christian Basics course myself, and I believe the best way to do it is… Read more »
Thanks Tim, that’s helpful, I will dig it out to read.
True – it is essentially basics – C S Lewis touched on these themes in the ‘morals’ section of Mere Christianity, as Gumbel does in ‘Searching Questions’ (the sexual ones at least). Neither of them are very sensitive about their choice of words – Lewis does at least reflect the official (and legal) attitudes of his time.
I will be interested to see if MacCulloch expands on his point about Alpha in the book. I had one substnatial experience with it a number of years ago. I have no time for it. Interestingly, and in keeping with what Martyn Percy mentions, one of its local merchandisers is the Roman Catholic Church which has an ‘airforce modified’ version. And yet, here is the party line given on sexuality by R.C. parishes.
After Pope allows same-sex blessings, response from N.S. parish draws scrutiny | CBC News
Rod, I have no complaint about your having no time for Alpha. It comes from a theological home that you strongly disagree with. And I repeat myself: I think Martyn Percy’s critique of Alpha largely boils down to the fact that it’s not liberal catholic.
Well, personally, I have no time for the new daily office book produced by Anglican Book Centre; I’m happy with the BAS office myself. My solution to my dislike is this: I don’t use it (despite the fact that it is being vigorously promoted by Canadian Anglican officialdom right now).
MacCulloch’s Alpha comment is pretty much an aside in a wide ranging interview that touches on a number of more interesting aspects of the church and sex controversy. I suppose it caught my eye because I too tend to associate Alpha with social conservatism. I read the Percy’s piece after I read the Guardian article–in fact because of it. I am not familiar with the Daily Office Book you mention. And being intentionally retired I tend not to pay much attention to National Church memos. There are just so many books and too little time. lol. I use a Celtic… Read more »
Rod, it’s the print version of this PDF:
https://www.anglican.ca/wp-content/uploads/pray-without-ceasing.pdf
Thanks Tim. After your comment I went to the ACC website and took a look. Once I did, I realized I had seen an online version of this some time ago. I had forgotten all about it. I’ve only given it a cursory look; but just out of curiosity, what is your view of it?
Rod, perhaps we should continue this discussion via email as it’s not really pertinent to the subject here. My fault because I raised it.
Good thought. I have the same address as when we last corresponded.
Is the McCulloch comment getting the attention simply because it refers to a currently popular event?
Also the following items, recently published by CUP on an open access basis in v. 60 of the Studies in Church History series: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/studies-in-church-history/article/enjoying-what-comes-naturally-the-church-of-england-and-sexuality-in-the-1930s/FB25DB86C23291B4D4688B47D73C5BDF and https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/studies-in-church-history/article/outrage-hypocrisy-episcopacy-and-homosexuality-in-1990s-england/52805714E792BDEEFCF03BB606271882
FROGHOLE! I’m so pleased to hear from you. You’ve been missed. I thought you might have shed this mortal coil, you know, fallen under a bus, etc.
Great to see the return of the erudite Froghole. The article is interesting indeed. I myself was struck by the words of Lord Quickswood. It seems to me that he puts his finger on the point at issue between liberals and conservatives on questions of sexuality. Professor MacCulloch’s book may be excellent, but the article in the Guardian seems to me to be little more than a rant.
Interesting article with a titilating and drole pinache. Lol. A hyporcrite can be described as an actor, someone wearing a mask. Once one gets past the unfortunate and deliberate mischaracterisation of the Pharisees in the gospels, one has to confront the issue as a major ethical problem in religion. Doing so in one’s self seems to be rather the point. I would like to zoom out and see this trait of organized religion, and those of us who are its sometime adherents, with a wider lens. Notice MacCulloch’s reference to Sandi Toksvig, ” …you just wanted to make clear in… Read more »
That comment about priests still probably still applies today, but, having read Froghole’s article, it seems we now have fewer out gay bishops in England than we did thirty years ago. And still so many bishops in the closet.
Not hypocrites in the modern, negative, sense. But still hypocrites in the original sense of masked actors, and unwilling to let their real faces be seen.
It is so sad that such people still feel the pressure to be this way.
Yes it is sad. And what MacCulloch says about the world of church poltics is spot on, sadly, as well.
I find it astonishing if there really is competition for Canterbury. If you look at what it’s done to the last two incumbents it seems more like a call to martyrdom than episcopacy.
I was approached by a family group to conduct Confirmation classes. But while I was sourcing material to use with all ages, the prime mover was invited to our local HTB sponsored church plant. After doing Alpha and the Holy Spirit weekend she said she no longer needed confirmation.
That is sort of theologically true, but what is the plant doing poaching your people? And they don’t seem Alert enough to suggest that this person’s new faith experience might be expressed in confirmation.
Part of the problem is that many (most?) of those leading these plants have no understanding of the sacramental life of the Church of England, and are essentially Baptist in their theology. Confirmation just isn’t on their radar. Which makes me wonder why the C of E is spending so much money promoting a non-Anglican approach to the Christian life.
Even as singular bishop as Richard Chartres felt obliged to promote Alpha, writing a glowing encomium for the course back in the day. At the time he had a bolt hole in North Devon, and when a local priest remarked ingratiatingly on this, the bishop replied: “You don’t follow that pap do you?”
Many years ago now but an Alpha group on Merseyside disintegrated following pasta being served on the course. It was pointed out that pasta was Italian, like the Pope. (Actually he was Polish.)
I’m no fan of Alpha, but we’re a broad church and it has value for some. What does perplex though is why Richard Chartres – a bishop well able to think for himself – felt it necessary to endorse a programme he regarded as ‘pap’. Hypocrisy is the English disease, and I’m not going to cast stones. It’s the House of Bishops’ group-think that concerns me.
Because he wasn’t daft! He knew that if you took away the HTB/Alpha churches in the diocese, the numbers would have looked pretty paltry, and the common fund would have looked even worse. He also understood that many city people are drawn to such churches so he over affirmed and supported them – and I think that is to his credit. Bishops have to hold together an ever widening and unenviable stream. None more than +Chartres.
Fair enough! As I said, hypocrisy is le vice Anglais.
Perhaps the catholic tradition needs to ask itself why people who have had a powerful experience of the infilling of the Holy Spirit in the context of charismatic renewal often can’t quite see the point of going through a formal ritual that promises the same thing, but very rarely seems to deliver on it. After all, when Peter and John laid hands on the new converts in Samaria, what happened to them was obvious to all, and was so impressive that Simon Magus offered the apostles money if they would give him the power to do the same thing. I… Read more »
Perhaps because the account in Acts, having been written years after the events and more as a proselytizing work than an historic one, laid it on “a bit thick” as to the effect?
I’m not sure how you could claim to know that for sure, but your reply still doesn’t answer my question as to why people today, who have had powerful experiences of the Holy Spirit in the context of charismatic renewal, would be remotely interested in going through a formal ritual which purports to offer the same thing but rarely seems to deliver (I don’t say ‘never’, because I know one or two people who have had very powerful ‘baptism in the Holy Spirit’-type experiences in confirmation). I was confirmed at the age of twelve because my parents decided it was… Read more »
“It doesn’t answer the question of why would they want to get confirmed, after already having had a powerful experience of the Holy Spirit?” I made this argument myself in my teens but my understanding evolved. Once you emerge from the charismatic bubble you may learn that similar ‘ecstatic experiences’ and ‘altered states of consciousness’ are to be found in other religions, drug-taking, football terraces, pop concerts and more. In other words, the simplistic interpretation of an emotional, group dynamic, suggestion/ autosuggestion experience as only explicable in terms of New Testament Christianity’s description of people experiencing the Holy Spirit is… Read more »
‘Once you emerge from the charismatic bubble’
LOL i emerged from it a long time ago.
Yes, sorry, I meant “once one emerges…”
Nothing personal 🙂
In line, I think, with Orthodox theologian Paul Evdokimov and some others, I regard confirmation as a kind of ordination into the priesthood of the laity. So the church of which we are part, and world in which we are pledged to live out our calling, are recognised in the ceremony, which does not detract from the value of other types of charismatic experience. For me it was also about publicly reaffirming my baptismal vows and being clear about my primary allegiance, however imperfectly I have reflected that since in my life.
You make it sound as if the practice of confirmation is somehow the preserve of the catholic tradition. Not so long ago it was mainstream Anglican practice, shared with the wider Western Church. The wider Western Church has also seen a marked decline in the practice of confirmation, largely due to the twentieth century innovation of admitting people to communion before confirmation, which quickly became admission to communion instead of confirmation. I recognise that people can have powerful experiences of the Holy Spirit outside the sacrament of confirmation – after all, the Spirit blows where he wills. I often think… Read more »
Kallistos Ware was once asked about charismatic gifts in the Orthodox tradition. He said he sensed a difference between western and eastern experiences of the Spirit, and in the Orthodox tradition it would be more likely to be manifest in the gift of tears.
And the pre-conditions for this experience are? Which authenticity are we to prefer – the Catholic sacrament or the HTB climax. (Do I remember an Evangelical allegory of three figures walking a long a wall with faith in the lead?)
‘HTB climax’?????
Yes I agree, though I don’t think confirmation is a sacrament- the HTB sort of charismatic don’t get ritual general as well as not getting sacraments. The irony is that an earlier generation of charismatics (My generation!) did. We tend to be unhappy with where charismatic renewal has gone. And early evangelicals were sacramentalists as Christopher Cocksworth’s PhD showed.
Let’s face it, it’s a NO-sacrament version of Christianity. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper feature only because they are commanded by scripture, this is the distinct impression I get from talking to them. If standing on one’s head for half an hour at lunchtime were commanded, they would do that too.
Once the primitive pattern of initiation was broken up in the western church in the late middle ages ( and in England Abp Peacock I think decreed çonfirmation must precede admission to communion) Confirmation as . bequeathed to the reformed C of E lacked a coherent theology ( as in the debate between Colin Buchanan and others a few decades ago) It kept the prayer for the gift of the Spirit but by adding the reaffirmation of baptismal vows ( a la Bucer) and making the prayer at the laying on of hands more like a blessing ( and omitting… Read more »
Apart from the preface and the very simple expression of assent to the baptismal promises, the 1662 confirmation rite is the same as that in the Roman ritual – “Confirma” being translated as “Defend” rather than “Confirm”. It is short and simple. 1928 elaborated it by bigging up the reaffirmation part, and every subsequent C of E revision has elaborated it even further.
I think it’s natural for people who don’t remember their infant baptism to want to make a public profession of faith. When i was sixteen my best friend was baptised as an adult, and I remember being envious of him that he got to make that public commitment for himself. I had been confirmed at the age of twelve, but it was not by my own initiative and was not really significant for me.
I think that’s what you mean by ‘bigging up the reaffirmation part’, yes?
I think an adult affirmation is v attractive. I barely remember my confirmation at twelve apart from having to wear a white dress and a hideous head covering. But the affirmation we all make at baptisms during a Sunday Eucharist are very powerful and encouraging. To be fair the preparation for confirmation was thorough and I learned a lot which has stuck through very varied sixty years.
Yes, those reaffirmations that we all make at baptisms in a Sunday Eucharist are very powerful. When I was presiding at those events, I loved watching people’s faces as they repeated the words of the baptismal covenant. It was clear that sometimes some very significant spiritual stuff was going on in people’s hearts.
Can I throw my personal tuppence worth in at this point? As a young teenager I was pressganged into a confirmation ceremony without my choice even being considered – vicar and parents were more concerned with social tradition and the numbers game to bother respecting the candidate’s views! Although more interested in religion, my wife’s experience was similar – nothing was mentioned about the need to repent and accept Christ as Saviour and Lord, just turn up every so often, particularly at Easter, and join the club. Discovering the reality – I’m unapologetically blunt here, being a Midlander – from… Read more »
I totally agree with and identify with all these comments, John. A year after my confirmation, my dad lent me Dennis Bennett’s ‘Nine O’Clock in the Morning’. Wow! A real God who did real things in the real lives of real people! It got my attention in a big way, and led eventually to my own personal commitment to Christ. Today I see many, many shortcomings in Dennis and Rita Bennett’s work, but it’s pretty clear to me that I wouldn’t be a practising Christian today without the charismatic movement in general and that book in particular. Someone mentioned ’emerging… Read more »
Thank you John for expressing so well a very similar experience to my own. I am shocked that Martyn Percy can write such criticisms of Alpha when he hasn’t even attended one. I don’t believe any Alpha courses will have taught his caricature of our faith, and how does he know? If this is his level of discourse I am starting to have some sympathy with the dons who drove him out of Christchurch. Does he appreciate the generations of ‘Alpha equivalents’ that have laboured since the seventeenth century? – Small groups meeting together for teaching and fellowship, many of… Read more »
There may be a tradition of ‘Nolo episcopari’ but the current process of application, interviewing and CVs which seem to require the self proclamation of personal virtues seem to relegate such humility to the past.
I recently asked a newly consecrated bishop why anybody would wish to be a bishop in the current age.
He smiled and said ‘You have to work very hard at it to put your name in the ring to become a bishop!,
Nolo Episcopari….I think not.
No one in the Church of England applies to be a bishop. For diocesan bishops, the members of the CNC suggest names and these individuals are invited into the process. They may decline, or subsequently withdraw, or they may agree to participate in the process. For suffragan bishops the process is less formal, but the diocesan bishop and their advisory panel may similarly invite priests into the process.
That may be how it is officially, but I would suspect there is a short list (or maybe even a long one) of priests who are seen to have the right credentials to be elevated to the episcopacy and the people who make the invitations know who those priests are… those priests know very well that they are on the list
I think this has been explained before on TA. There is a centrally-maintained list of clergy deemed ready to be considered for diocesan bishoprics, and a list of those deemed ready to be considered as suffragan bishops. But the CNC (for diocesan bishoprics) and the advisory panel (for suffragans) are not limited to people on these lists at all.
Yup….sure….its all down to the Holy Spirit.
I was thinking particularly about suffragans but the comment I got was from a diocesan. Funny old thing that!
My comment did not specify diocesan or suffragan and I stand by it.
I think the best description of Bishops appointments, albeit tongue in cheek, is “The Bishop’s Gambit” in Yes Prime Minister. One of the extraordinary things is that the Prime Minister is given name – and very forced card trick presentation to get him to pick one name – which will then be “recommended to the monarch”. This means that recently a practicing Hindu (Rishi Sunak) was making decisions of CofE Bishops which has to be quite extraordinary, and illustrates the kind of problem with an age old system which is creaking at the seams.
Except that Yes Prime Minister is ancient history. The PM is only given one name by the CNC, and that has been the case since Gordon Brown’s time.
So the situation is even worse in the PM “giving the nod” without any choice at all really! Why on earth bother with that, and not just submit the name directly to the monarch? Instead of which there is a vestigial procedure rather like a left over appendix, there but of not earthly use.
Is that better or worse? Either way, the constitutional principle, preserved jealously by PMs, is that only they advise the monarch. Where the PM gets their own advice from is up to them. And the Church, through the CNC, makes its own choice.
So, essentially, the whole thing as announced by Buckingham Palace, “the monarch has….” is a facade, right? Which puts the CoE in the position of perpetrating a public fraud.
Hardly a “fraud”! No one is trying to deceive. After all, every Act of Parliament begins “Be it enacted, by the King’s most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons”. No one doubts where the real decisions are made — and it isn’t with the King, who has no say at all, or the Lords Spiritual or Lords Temporal, though they do at least get a vote.
https://erskinemay.parliament.uk/section/4978/enacting-formula/