Simon Butler and Chris Newlands, the prolocutors of Canterbury and York respectively in the General Synod, have made public the letter they have written to the archbishops. The full text of this is available here.
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God 'elp us all
4 years ago
Whither Living in Love and Faith? Wondering whether this will find time for debate at General Synod? Echoing a previous ‘thread’: What are bishops for? What is General Synod for? What is going on?
Fr. Dean Henley
4 years ago
Good for the Prolocutors! Polite but firm. I particularly like the sentence about the LGBTQ bishops and their silence.
Fr John Harris-White
4 years ago
Thank you for your honesty, sincerity, and genuine pastoral concern for our beloved Church of England. Its members and many laity who follow us..
A contrast to the House of Bishops.
Now is the time for the House of Bishops to apologise to the whole of the Church of England, not just the Synod, and withdraw their evil statement.
Fr John Emlyn
Kate
4 years ago
That is how you object. That is the tone we should be seeing from any bishop who claims to object.
Susannah Clark
4 years ago
Thanks, both of you. I committed myself to LLF, and my sharing was not without emotional cost and tears. To be fair, Eeva John was very supportive and decent to me. But since then, I have felt powerless, out of the process, with no part to play in the drafting process, no chance for further input or comment. It’s as if one is ‘listened to’ but then once again [witness this recent ‘Pastoral Statement’] your life, your lived experience, is talked over and talked about. My wife and I are to live celibate lives, permanently. Or so we are told.… Read more »
Paul Waddington
4 years ago
The publication of the House of Bishops’ statement on Civil Partnerships is, to my mind, clearly an attempt to save the Lambeth Conference from mass absenteeism. Justin Welby has been working for the success of this event since his appointment as Archbishop of Canterbury, and, on the run up to the event, he is trying desperately to avoid upsetting the conservative Churches, especially in Africa. Everything will be done to avoid discussion of contentious matters at the forthcoming General Synod. So there will be no discussion of Living in Love and Faith. The timetable is being stuffed with other (largely… Read more »
This is the proper context to understand this. Thank you for your comment.
The AC is being given permission to consider new models of organization.
The ABC will have shown he has done all he could in his region. He will then show his patch is too controverted.
After that, the CofE can return to itself; he will have discharged his ‘international role’ (which is resented locally unless conforming to local politics; these are divided hopelessly, of course).
And the CofE can get on in its very divisive reality.
Christopher: the C of E is diverse, rather than divisive. It echoes and mirrors the Anglican Communion as a whole. Your oft repeated contention that the C of E doesn’t want the Archbishop of Canterbury to have anything to do with the Anglican Communion is just being represented here and is not convincing. It’s wishful thinking.
The Archbishop of Canterbury has been putting the interests of conservative African churches ahead of the interests of the Church of England.
Is this a structural conflict, built into Canterbury’s role?
To ensure broad attendance at a conference, is the Church of England going to have to experience several years of overly controlling conservatism, before every future Lambeth Conference?
Is Canterbury working to ensure that conservatives attend, so that the liberals do not have the votes?
“before every future Lambeth Conference”
It is very doubtful if there will be any future Lambeth Conferences. This one has been delayed two years whilst Archbishop Welby desperately tried to paper over the cracks. and avoid the embarrassment of mass non-attendance. I don’t think he will succeed, and I doubt whether future Archbishops will take the risk.
A more likely outcome is that the Anglican Communion will split in two.
I think it will be a lot messier than that Paul. Some Primates are happy to attend Primates meetings and Gafcon, some Provinces are prepared to formally break communion with TEC Canada etc, no Provinces appear to have broken communion with Canterbury tho Nigeria says you dont have to be in communion with Canterbury to be a good Anglican. Some Provinces have adopted the Jerusalem Declaration but most wont, certainly not the C of E. Some have recognised ACNA and the dissidents in Brasil and NZ but most havent and the C of E wont. Rather than a split it… Read more »
FrDavidH
4 years ago
Hell will freeze over before the bishops apologise.
The honourable thing for Archbishop Welby to do would be to offer his resignation to Her Majesty for his lamentable role in this dreadful episode. The damage to the CofE’s already battered reputation is evident from the universal condemnation in the Press. The Bishop of Liverpool has described us as a laughing stock for goodness sake. But powerful men don’t seem to resign anymore when they foul up; we just get bluster and spin instead. Paul Waddington’s analysis that this is about the Archbishop’s investment in the Lambeth Conference and it’s legacy for his own tenure sounds eminently plausible and… Read more »
Ahem … I don’t think they have apologised. We’ve had some mealy mouthed phraseology but they haven’t withdrawn the Statement; just regretted its timing and its impact upon their already battered reputation!
Hurrah for Fathers Simon and Chris! Their challenge to the archbishops is thoroughly justifiable in the circumstances. In the context of ‘Love and Faith’ and the C.of E.’s own expressed determination to deal pastorally and compassionately with the LGBT+ Community in the Church; the new’ Statement’ from the Bishops is inexcusable – and decidedly un-pastoral. This public reversal of the pastoral implications of previous statements on this issue is nothing other than a disgrace, and will be viewed as such by the general public outside of the Church. In the meantime, those of us who are Anglicans in other parts… Read more »
Canon Dr Michael Graham Blyth
4 years ago
This is an excellent letter. The ‘Pastoral’ Statement is as if the Archbishops and Bishops have deliberately launched an Exocet at the ministry of their own church, and into the awareness of the nation. They have made it extremely hard for clergy and laity at the cliff face to continue to offer ‘good news’ in the uniquely sacrosanct area of people’s personal lives. The Statement cannot look other than a foretaste of the conclusions of LLF; in which case, as so often in the past, any ‘listening process’ is simply a cover for yet more prevaricating about the need for… Read more »
Jane Thomas
4 years ago
This is an excellent, well-argued, balanced letter. It gets to the heart of why so many people have been angered by this so-called pastoral statement. It is a very welcome intervention at a time where significant numbers of people are no longer prepared to accept (what purports to be) the Bishops’ version of reality, whether it relates to sex, abuse, or the latest strategic ruse for ‘growth.’ That’s actually quite serious. When the Bishops lose control of the narrative, and are no longer trusted to be teachers of the faith precisely because they are no longer trusted to tell the… Read more »
Robert Ellis
4 years ago
Thank you and you speak on behalf of many, many Anglicans.
Susan
4 years ago
Enjoying reflecting on the radical vision, life and love of God in Jesus and wish this would catch on in the Church. Ashamed of the Church regarding this latest statement from the House if Bishops. Very good response from the Prolocutors. What will it take to make the Church realise that we have had enough of this nonsense?
Just go ahead and bless all devoted couples in our churches, openly and without shame? And do that as a collective action agreed by a hundred churches? Simply because it’s right… The more who do it, the more others will too.
Whither Living in Love and Faith? Wondering whether this will find time for debate at General Synod? Echoing a previous ‘thread’: What are bishops for? What is General Synod for? What is going on?
Good for the Prolocutors! Polite but firm. I particularly like the sentence about the LGBTQ bishops and their silence.
Thank you for your honesty, sincerity, and genuine pastoral concern for our beloved Church of England. Its members and many laity who follow us..
A contrast to the House of Bishops.
Now is the time for the House of Bishops to apologise to the whole of the Church of England, not just the Synod, and withdraw their evil statement.
Fr John Emlyn
That is how you object. That is the tone we should be seeing from any bishop who claims to object.
Thanks, both of you. I committed myself to LLF, and my sharing was not without emotional cost and tears. To be fair, Eeva John was very supportive and decent to me. But since then, I have felt powerless, out of the process, with no part to play in the drafting process, no chance for further input or comment. It’s as if one is ‘listened to’ but then once again [witness this recent ‘Pastoral Statement’] your life, your lived experience, is talked over and talked about. My wife and I are to live celibate lives, permanently. Or so we are told.… Read more »
The publication of the House of Bishops’ statement on Civil Partnerships is, to my mind, clearly an attempt to save the Lambeth Conference from mass absenteeism. Justin Welby has been working for the success of this event since his appointment as Archbishop of Canterbury, and, on the run up to the event, he is trying desperately to avoid upsetting the conservative Churches, especially in Africa. Everything will be done to avoid discussion of contentious matters at the forthcoming General Synod. So there will be no discussion of Living in Love and Faith. The timetable is being stuffed with other (largely… Read more »
Paul, Justin was in Kenya when the statement came out? Coincidence? Probably not.
This is the proper context to understand this. Thank you for your comment.
The AC is being given permission to consider new models of organization.
The ABC will have shown he has done all he could in his region. He will then show his patch is too controverted.
After that, the CofE can return to itself; he will have discharged his ‘international role’ (which is resented locally unless conforming to local politics; these are divided hopelessly, of course).
And the CofE can get on in its very divisive reality.
Christopher: the C of E is diverse, rather than divisive. It echoes and mirrors the Anglican Communion as a whole. Your oft repeated contention that the C of E doesn’t want the Archbishop of Canterbury to have anything to do with the Anglican Communion is just being represented here and is not convincing. It’s wishful thinking.
The Archbishop of Canterbury has been putting the interests of conservative African churches ahead of the interests of the Church of England.
Is this a structural conflict, built into Canterbury’s role?
To ensure broad attendance at a conference, is the Church of England going to have to experience several years of overly controlling conservatism, before every future Lambeth Conference?
Is Canterbury working to ensure that conservatives attend, so that the liberals do not have the votes?
“before every future Lambeth Conference”
It is very doubtful if there will be any future Lambeth Conferences. This one has been delayed two years whilst Archbishop Welby desperately tried to paper over the cracks. and avoid the embarrassment of mass non-attendance. I don’t think he will succeed, and I doubt whether future Archbishops will take the risk.
A more likely outcome is that the Anglican Communion will split in two.
I think it will be a lot messier than that Paul. Some Primates are happy to attend Primates meetings and Gafcon, some Provinces are prepared to formally break communion with TEC Canada etc, no Provinces appear to have broken communion with Canterbury tho Nigeria says you dont have to be in communion with Canterbury to be a good Anglican. Some Provinces have adopted the Jerusalem Declaration but most wont, certainly not the C of E. Some have recognised ACNA and the dissidents in Brasil and NZ but most havent and the C of E wont. Rather than a split it… Read more »
Hell will freeze over before the bishops apologise.
The honourable thing for Archbishop Welby to do would be to offer his resignation to Her Majesty for his lamentable role in this dreadful episode. The damage to the CofE’s already battered reputation is evident from the universal condemnation in the Press. The Bishop of Liverpool has described us as a laughing stock for goodness sake. But powerful men don’t seem to resign anymore when they foul up; we just get bluster and spin instead. Paul Waddington’s analysis that this is about the Archbishop’s investment in the Lambeth Conference and it’s legacy for his own tenure sounds eminently plausible and… Read more »
They have apologised – good news for hell too!
Ahem … I don’t think they have apologised. We’ve had some mealy mouthed phraseology but they haven’t withdrawn the Statement; just regretted its timing and its impact upon their already battered reputation!
Hurrah for Fathers Simon and Chris! Their challenge to the archbishops is thoroughly justifiable in the circumstances. In the context of ‘Love and Faith’ and the C.of E.’s own expressed determination to deal pastorally and compassionately with the LGBT+ Community in the Church; the new’ Statement’ from the Bishops is inexcusable – and decidedly un-pastoral. This public reversal of the pastoral implications of previous statements on this issue is nothing other than a disgrace, and will be viewed as such by the general public outside of the Church. In the meantime, those of us who are Anglicans in other parts… Read more »
This is an excellent letter. The ‘Pastoral’ Statement is as if the Archbishops and Bishops have deliberately launched an Exocet at the ministry of their own church, and into the awareness of the nation. They have made it extremely hard for clergy and laity at the cliff face to continue to offer ‘good news’ in the uniquely sacrosanct area of people’s personal lives. The Statement cannot look other than a foretaste of the conclusions of LLF; in which case, as so often in the past, any ‘listening process’ is simply a cover for yet more prevaricating about the need for… Read more »
This is an excellent, well-argued, balanced letter. It gets to the heart of why so many people have been angered by this so-called pastoral statement. It is a very welcome intervention at a time where significant numbers of people are no longer prepared to accept (what purports to be) the Bishops’ version of reality, whether it relates to sex, abuse, or the latest strategic ruse for ‘growth.’ That’s actually quite serious. When the Bishops lose control of the narrative, and are no longer trusted to be teachers of the faith precisely because they are no longer trusted to tell the… Read more »
Thank you and you speak on behalf of many, many Anglicans.
Enjoying reflecting on the radical vision, life and love of God in Jesus and wish this would catch on in the Church. Ashamed of the Church regarding this latest statement from the House if Bishops. Very good response from the Prolocutors. What will it take to make the Church realise that we have had enough of this nonsense?
Just go ahead and bless all devoted couples in our churches, openly and without shame? And do that as a collective action agreed by a hundred churches? Simply because it’s right… The more who do it, the more others will too.