A review of Winchester Cathedral identified “significant failings in leadership and management”, the Bishop of Winchester, the Rt Revd Philip Mounstephen, said today, when a summary of the review was published. The diocese issued this press release, and the summary is here. The Dean, the Very Revd Catherine Ogle, whose retirement in May this year was announced several months ago, has said that she will immediately hand over leadership responsibilities to Vice-Dean Canon Roly Riem.
There are a number of press reports.
Church Times ‘Significant failings’ found at Winchester Cathedral
Hampshire Chronicle Dean of Winchester Cathedral steps down following bullying review
Slippedisc Winchester in Turmoil as Dean Abruptly Quits
The cathedral website has this list of Winchester Cathedral Updates on Bishop’s Review.
I’m struck by the fact that there is no mention here of the Precentor. I understand that his conduct was the subject of complaints.
See pages 7 & 9.
I don’t see how those fleeting references address the very real disprespect that the Precentor showed the musicians of the cathedral. Indeed, confirming that he should continue to line manage the Director of Music may conceivably consolidate the problem.
Surely that is the normal ‘arrangement’ in every cathedral. The Precentor has overall charge of the music and liturgy. At Winchester the title is Precentor and Sacrist.
I think I should avoid comment about recent events and personalities other than to express deep sadness. But the problems which you mention aren’t new or limited to Winchester. The great Samuel Sebastian Wesley had to endure musical supervision of his choir (interference?) by a Winchester precentor and there are descriptions of the great man standing grimly alongside the cleric while this happened!
It’s a frustratingly coy summary. Whose poor performance was managed badly? His? The former director of music? It seems unlikely that the Precentor can really rebuild relationships given how bad things have got.
It astonishes me that, from the perspective of a church musician, the person who has caused most havoc, sails calmly on.
Another untouchable male in the hierarchy – surely not???
This was my immediate response. What may be astonishing to a church musician may seem wearily familiar to someone steeped in the history of women within the church.
Believe me I am fully steeped in the history of the Church of England’s contemporary oppression of minorities!
Knowing a bit of your background – I believe you!
You may be right – but I suspect this summary is a case of ‘let those with eyes see’ in terms of what sits between the lines of the words on the page, and what’s in the full version of the Report. Whether anything will come of it, probably not, would be my guess…
so like the CofE! The further up the greasy pole one gets…
Catherine Ogle has done the honourable thing in stepping down now. If only a few more would follow her example. I wish her well.
This review certainly will not calm the stormy waters at Winchester. Indeed I suspect that by so obviously avoiding some matters it may have made things worse.
Judging by the material which has been in the media (including Private Eye) for some time the Church has taken an inordinate time to fail to sort out this problem.
I have known Dean Catherine for many years. She has been an outstanding Dean – “transformative” in the words of the new acting Dean. She has acted honourably. The scandal is that there is a male bully still in post who has no place being there. The review says this quite clearly – without saying it quite clearly!! When will he be as gracious and follow his former leader’s lead?
No time soon would be my guess, probably not least because there would then be the question of where such a person could go, assuming they aren’t coming up to the age to retire.
Well…unless the C of E opts to use the well trodden RC problem solving pathway of ‘promoveatur ut amoveatur’, of course. It wouldn’t be the first time someone had been ‘kicked upstairs’ in the C of E to solve an embarrassing situation for a Bishop…think Nine O’Clock Service Archdeacon, among others!
Can you provide a translation of ‘‘promoveatur ut amoveatur’, please?
I think this explains it Janet
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/latin-to-english/poetry-literature/2505344-promoveatur-ut-amoveatur.html
Apparently it’s a phrase often linked to the Catholic Church
Sorry Janet, in functional terms it means promoting someone to move them on. Vatican politics in recent years has seen this time and time again. Give someone more status, but take as much power from them as possible in the process, then gradually erode what’s left. Then, when they’re weakened enough, find a way to get rid of them.
Thanks, that’s helpful.
Similarly there is the Peter principle. Promote until they are incompetent.
It sounds to me very much like the Winchester cleric they all mean has already reached that level…
And she was his boss.
Perhaps it is worth noting – without prejudice given the weight of this report – that this is the second time in successive posts that Bishop Mountstephen has found himself in a conflicted relationship with his cathedral.
It’s a very common phenomenon. Just read Trollope, or Elizabeth Goudge, or look at the history of the 1990s Lincoln Wars.
It is,, however , refreshing to see that this report has been published rather than hushed up , and that the lead bully has not been allowed to crawl off into parish ministry.
Thank you for this as it touches on a range of issues around cathedrals. I used to coordinate a group of Deans of smaller Cathedrals when I was Dean of Chelmsford. This was an enormously helpful and supportive gathering which still continues. Post lockdown it was clear that for many of us issues of resourcing were high on the list of challenges. But at the same time many of us had come to feel that we were becoming CEOs of medium sized businesses rather than priests. My own decision to move back into parish ministry was back in my first… Read more »
That is amazing. In the two parishes where I was in charge, it was a real struggle to find time to read and think and pray. There was a heavy load of pastoral work and admin, and the phone and doorbell went constantly. I live on my own, so there was no one else to answer. People would even go round to the back gate to see if I was in the garden, or stop me as I was reversing down the steep drive. It is good to work with people rather than organisations, though.
But the “without prejudice” needs to do a lot of heavy lifting here. Not just a form of words to clothe the finding of fault. Having been in “conflict” with two different, and powerful, institutions doesn’t mean those institutions had “right” (whatever that is) on their side.
No ‘t’ !!
I take it you mean that there is only one ‘t’ in ‘Mounstephen’?
“The Precentor was appointed to bring change by delivering a new music strategy. There is much to be commended about this strategy. However, it was not properly communicated or consulted upon. The report identifies silo working within the cathedral to be a particular challenge, which meant that the Precentor felt that he was largely working alone. This was combined with management styles among certain senior leaders which many found difficult and which were not themselves appropriately challenged. Indeed underlying cultural issues made challenging such behaviour difficult.” (Summary, p.7) This suggests: The Precentor wanted to deliver the strategy by pushing it… Read more »
With glowing references and a good story about having been victimised ?
When my brother in law, James Atwell, a previous dean at Winchester, had his funeral service there, the sub organist, who was quite young, gave a great rendition of songs from the Sound of Music, as per his wishes. I think that could have been part of a new music strategy.
Seriously, I have always thought that diversity in music was important, whether church music or secular music.
I am not sure why the age of the organist matters. Organ scholars are usually young – but that doesn’t have a bearing on the music they play or direct. The essence and core of cathedral music is supporting worship through the English Choral tradition – including fine music composed by living composers – old and new aren’t mutually exclusive. But if lost or diluted, it is almost impossible to recover this tradition. For those seeking a different musical culture, there are many parish churches offering this – diversity really means a choice – but attempting to offer a wide… Read more »
A pity none of the discussions takes cognisance of the talented Director of Music who deserved thoughts and prayers and some consideration
He married recently with splendid music at Winchester’s ‘second cathedral’ the magnificent church of the Hospital of St Cross. Choristers and Lay Clerks from ‘his’ Cathedral choir sang for the great occasion, and we can wish him and his wife a long and happy life together.
Among his other attainments he was previously Organist and Director of Music at Lichfield Cathedral and had been Sub Organist of Westminster Abbey.
Note that the precentor’s wife holds an important management position within CofE.
which is?
Cathedral’s NDA woes deepen – Slippedisc
https://slippedisc.com/2024/05/cathedrals-nda-woes-deepen/
thank you
Francis James, Thank you for this disclosure of a relevant related relational matter
I have a feeling this fact will prove very important in determining how much action may come her husband’s way in response. It’s one thing ejecting an allegedly wayward cleric. It’s quite another if their spouse holds the position she does…then it becomes embarrassing!
Reading this in juxtaposition with the new post above about the Debate in the House the entire higher organisation of the C of E comes across as utterly self – serving and seedy. Synod should feel ashamed of being swayed by X North. The Dean here behaved with great dignity – and has been rewarded by headlines in at least part of the gutter press saying Dean resigns after bullying scandal- I suspect it did not go on to say ‘bully still in place ‘- I couldn’t bear to read it. . If incidents continue to unfold at this rate… Read more »
Some may disagree with me, but I felt a huge amount of sorrow for the position the Dean found herself in. By all accounts she had already done a good job as a Dean in her previous post, and I strongly suspect she was just no match for her clerical colleague. ‘Too nice by half’ is my impression, which such people take disgusting advantage of. I realise it could be said that if you are in the ‘top job’ in an organisation, you should be strong enough to deal with difficult junior colleagues. But such comments vastly underplay the complexities… Read more »
It is an incredibly sad state of affairs. The Interim Dean has issued his own statement… “ I would like to apologise myself for my part in the dysfunction of Chapter which has led to the mistakes and failures outlined in the Review summary.” Leadership calls for tough tasks and Deans need to acquire the skin of a rhinoceros in dealing effectively with junior colleagues.
Of course, one other ‘fascinating fact’ is the cleric in question is a former curate of Derby Cathedral, from the time when a former Dean of Wells, who ‘departed’ hot on the heels of the publication of a very similar kind of Report to this one, was Dean of Derby…
‘In his master’s steps he trod…’ as the old carol goes.
I make no comment about this dispute, save to note that regardless of reforms to cathedrals effected in 1999 and 2021, scraps of this kind seem to keep happening. Dean Ogle, Jane Hands and others worked diligently to overhaul governance structures following the 2021 Measure, and yet here we are. A common theme of cathedral strife is the behaviour of capitular clergy, a problem amplified by the glass bowl nature of precincts life. I also note that the numbers of cathedral clergy have undergone only modest reductions since the implementation of the 1840 Act, whilst the numbers of parochial clergy… Read more »
Sounds far too sensible. Idle people create mischief. Work can be both productive work and non-productive work.
The relative strength in staffing cathedrals and their relative resilience in congregation numbers is an illustration of the value of consistent core funding as opposed to transactional or challenge funding models.
As always, Froghole contributes a valuable historical context to the matter at hand. But to return cathedral life to its status ca. 1840 would be to revisit a time when cathedrals were hardly at their healthiest or most effective. That the Dean would have been the sole permanently resident priest in 1840 is in any event to overstate the case, since many of the singing men (as well as the minor canons) would have been ordained ‘vicars choral’. To reduce a cathedral to this minimum would unbalance its whole worshipping life: evensong would no longer be a collaboration between clergy… Read more »
Thank you for sharing this vision of what cathedral life can be, and reminding me of my time at Norwich Cathedral which drew upon the riches of its Benedictine heritage as it offered a space for learning, hospitality and rich worship. But it’s some years since I left there, and I wonder if cathedrals generally now can claim to offer such a life. We’ve all heard the stories of crazy golf and helter skelters in naves, and here in Coventry secular events in the Cathedral seem to be becoming more common – indeed, on the eve of Palm Sunday this… Read more »
I am most grateful to Dr Doll for these comments. What I had in mind was a reform which would preserve capitular establishments in their present form, but leverage the manpower for the support of parochial ministry. This is not because I would wish to gut the cathedrals – I wish as ardently as anyone that they were as well staffed with clergy as they have ever been – but because I am most concerned about the parishes, since they present the greater risk. For if the cathedral is the head of the diocesan body, what use is an outsize… Read more »
I am grateful to Fr Dexter and Froghole for their thoughtful and challenging responses. It is unarguable that cathedrals as a body have failed to live out the vision articulated by Dean Goulburn. Froghole didn’t mention (as he might have done) the way so many deans and chapters shamefully sold off their libraries as surplus to requirements. For the most part it is fragile finances which has forced some to go down the route of charging for entry and offering controversial attractions — though I can confirm in the case of Norwich that the helter-skelter was installed with a fully… Read more »
Thank you again! To paraphrase Denis Healey, ‘who is the Mephistopheles behind this shabby Faust?’ Is it not the problematic distribution of assets between the various tiers within the Church? As I have mentioned here before, the Church Commissioners funded about 50% of the stipends bill prior to 1995 and 100% of the pension accruals prior to 1998; since those dates the burden on parish share has increased remorselessly, has functioned as a de facto tax on ministry and has – unsurprisingly – resulted in a proportionate reduction in local provision. Of course, the seed capital of the Church Commissioners… Read more »
Your scenario is fervently to be hoped for! Presumably it would take an act of Parliament to prise the Church Commissioners fingers from all that money and all that lovely power?
The Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/10/the-extraordinary-civil-war-engulfing-winchester-cathedral/
Does anyone know where a copy of the review can be downloaded? I have been able to find the bishop’s summary but not the whole review. Many thanks in anticipation.
Giles, my understanding is that the full report is not available for public viewing. I believe, this was agreed at the start and allowed disclosures which would be kept confidential. The summary is available and there has been a personal apology/statement from the Acting Dean.
It was made clear at the outset, and repeated in the Bishop’s summary of the Report as linked above, that the Report would not be a public document “following the Church Commissioners’ draft statutory guidance for such reviews stipulates”. This was, at least in part, to protect the confidentiality of contributors and their evidence to the review team.